Big change to eligibility rules

[the plastic paddy]

I think I like this policy, but quite happy that NZ haven't adopted it. As Blue says, Giteau looks to be one player that has the goods to perhaps play for Wallabies in WC ( I thought leaving him out of 2011 was Deans biggest cock up) , as he looks to be playing pretty good rugby. But anyone thinking it going to make a huge impact on Wallabies is probably mistaken, as players are only released for approved test windows, not for training camps etc etc, so I wouldn't think you would want to bring in anymore than 1 or 2 players for a test. All in all players in Japan would need some hard rugby before stepping into test rugby I think, and sure as hell European clubs are not going to allow players rests before or after tests. Also you would need a selector based in Europe I think.
Anyway don't really blame ARU for trying this as finances dictate how much they can play to hold players!!

Pienaar has a sensible release clause for SA playing at Ulster, a lot of lads negotiate similar in France. It is only the wankers at the English clubs who are obstructive. I have to say I think this is a cracking policy from the ARU. I would add that, for all the speed of Super rugby, T14 and European cup rugby is incredibly attritional. Kane Douglas has looked very underpowered at Leinster IMHO.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Why do people keep bringing up Douglas as if he will feature for the Wallabies this year? He is contracted to Leinster until 2016.

And he is about to undergo surgery on his back.

 

[KOB1987]

Why do people keep bringing up Douglas as if he will feature for the Wallabies this year? He is contracted to Leinster until 2016.

Yes but is that the 2015/2016 season or the 2016/2017 one? Because if it's the former he can contract to super rugby after that and he can be picked straight away upon.

Back injury aside...

Edit: no he can't because it's only once he is back in the country. Why is everyone talking about Douglas?!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Train Without a Station]

I would have Mike Harris over Giteau.

Not because I doubt Giteau's Top 14 form.

Because no matter how many years have passed and how many awards he has won, nothing has changed and the reason why Dean's went from him, to then Barnes and then McCabe still remains.

He's too small and physically passive for test rugby. Unless along with picking up all those awards he's put on about 20kg also, then nothing has changed. He would still be too passive (though very reliable and effective) in defence at 12, meaning the opposition would get over the gain line too easily. He'd also still be too weak in hard contact and not be a good crash ball option, meaning when on the back foot he's not effective ball in hand.

It's amazing nobody remembers this is why he was eventually replaced by Barnes in late 2010. He wasn't even in that bad form. He just wasn't effective enough for what we needed.

 

[Troy]

SBW came back didn't seem to affect him. I know he wasn't capped before he left...

Another is Percy Montgomery out of SA. Much improved after his stint OS!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Bullrush]

The best example I'd say was Leon MacDonald. He came back from Japan IMO faster and a much improved kicker. I also think the experience of being away from NZ helped him as a person.

He soon became a permanent fixture under Henry and at times was the starting fullback with Mils doing stints on the wing, centre or bench. He was also a key impact player off the bench. That second season of Super rugby after he returned I think he and Nonu topped the tackle bust count overall.

A new man was our Rangi.

I've talked before about both Leon MacDonald and Jerome Kaino and how I think Japan was almost like a rehabilitation stint for those guys with a huge ginancial benefit.
I heard MacDonald in an interview not long after he got back talk about how the games weren't as physical but the training was tough. He said he was probably the fittest he'd ever been.

Big difference between going to Japan and the NH I reckon.

 

[Bullrush]

SBW came back didn't seem to affect him. I know he wasn't capped before he left.

Another is Percy Montgomery out of SA. Much improved after his stint OS!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

SBW is grasping at straws. He hadn't played a single professional game of rugby before he left. Hard to get worse.

I honestly don't know about Montgomery

 

[Blue]

Bullrush you clearly think NH rugby is crap, players cannot improve when they go over there, and it is greatly inferior.

Nobody is saying players will en masse go there and get better. But to suggest that nobody can is a bit far fetched.

Montgomery is possible one of the best examples. His game tightened up and he went from being an 80% kicker to 95%

I think guys like Gitaue got over managed and over coached and the spotlight in Australia negatively impacted their game. He went to Toulon and the pressure was off and he could just play. But we will probably never know.

Mike Harris over Gitaeu. I've spat my corn flakes everywhere.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm with Bullrush on the quality of NH v SH rugby. I don't believe there is any substantial evidence that players who leave for the North at or near the top of their games come back at the same level or better. Younger players who haven't yet reached their peaks might improve while they are away (props and hookers especially) but who's to say they wouldn't have improved just as much had they stayed here playing Super rugby.

IMO most of the established test players are pretty soon over the hill after they start playing overseas.

There will be exceptions. I really think Kepu could have had another five years at least at test level had he stayed here, and I can see that he could well continue to improve wherever he plays. Actually, I think the new eligibility rules were introduced specifically for Kepu to continue playing for the Wallabies expecting him to attain 60 tests before he goes.

 

[Joeleee]

If the European competitions are that bad, and guys like Giteau would be absolutely useless in Wallabies gold, then we're a shoe in to get out top of our group right? I mean, how could England or Wales beat us? Their whole teams are playing in these slow, inferior competitions that sucks skill, fitness and ability from players.

 

[BDA]

Despite the introduction of the new rules, I'd prefer to see at least some restraint in choosing overseas players, so as not to discourage selection of locally based talent. For instance, I'd like to see a general rule of thumb that no overseas players are picked for the June tests. I see no reason we wouldn't use those tests to blood younger players, particularly given that we are generally playing understrength teams anyway.

For the Bledisloe, etc by all means bring in overseas players if necessary/preferable. The Plus is that it will make those games extra special from a casual viewer's perspective and probably help in promoting ticket sales, etc.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

How much will this announcement devalue the future contracts of Wallaby players looking to cash in in the twilight of their careers?

Before this announcement, foreign clubs could sign Wallabies knowing that they would be available for Club games during the Test Windows, when clubs must release their Saffers, PI, and 6N players who were called up for National Duty.

As the NZRU have yet to embrace World Rugby (IRB) regulation 9, this new policy will add/reinforce a premium to NZL players in Japan and NH.

With potentially lower value contracts being offered to our Twilight Wallabies, it may be easier for the financially struggling ARU to match packages being offered the athletes they want to keep at home.

 

[Braveheart81]

If there really is a lot more money on offer in Europe by not being available for selection for the Wallabies, players can just retire from test rugby to ensure their contracts are as big as they can be.

 

[Bullrush]

I've said that NH rugby isn't as good as Super Rugby and provided a few examples of why I think that. I've never said that it's crap.

@Blue - which top Super Rugby team would Ali Williams, Jimmy Goppeth and Michalak be getting regular starting spots?? Riki Flutey could hardly nail a starting Hurricanes spot, went over there and was a star. Same for Julian Salvi.

I really don't know about Percy Montgomery so I'll take your word for his improvement but weigh that up against the history of MacAllister/Elsom/Burgess/Hosea Gear.

Percy is the one exception it seems.

 

[Bullrush]

If the European competitions are that bad, and guys like Giteau would be absolutely useless in Wallabies gold, then we're a shoe in to get out top of our group right? I mean, how could England or Wales beat us? Their whole teams are playing in these slow, inferior competitions that sucks skill, fitness and ability from players.

Let's be honest then:

NZ and AUS have regularly gone over in the Spring Tour and - last year being the exception - been more succesful than not.

When NH team tour the SH, how often do they come away with wins?

Until the Lions win here in 2013, there was some serious talk about the Lions becoming irrelevant as they hadn't won a tour in how many years?

On any given day, any team can beat another no matter where they come from, the quality of the NH Test players cannot be disputed BUT I would hazard a guess that in the last 20-odd years or so, the SH have been far more successful than the NH teams in their match-ups.

And I don't think stacking their competitions with guys like Ali Williams, Jimmy Goppeth, Riki Flutey and Julian Salvi is helping their cause.

 

[Joeleee]

On any given day, any team can beat another no matter where they come from, the quality of the NH Test players cannot be disputed BUT I would hazard a guess that in the last 20-odd years or so, the SH have been far more successful than the NH teams in their match-ups.

Absolutely. My comment probably came off a bit over the top, but I didn't mean to say that the NH has better rugby than the SH. I think that's almost categorically untrue. My point I suppose is that people are saying that although Giteau was considered arguably the best player in Europe last year, there is no way he would make the Wallabies, because the NH competition is just so weak. There also seems to be a semi-consensus opinion that we'll struggle to make it out of our group over England and Wales, whose players all play in these NH competitions. I struggle to reconcile those two views, and think the truth probably falls somewhere in between. That is, Australia is probably quite a good shot of getting out of their groups and Giteau does have the skills to make an AUS lineup, though maybe not the appropriate playing style.

 

[RugbyReg]

It would be interesting if it creates a bit of depth and provides a chance to rest some players.

Rugby Champs team next year could be:

15 Izzy
14 Speight
13 TK
12 To'omua
11 JOC (James O'Connor)
10 Foley
9 Phipps
8 McCalman
7 Hooper
6 Fardy
5 Skelton
4 Simmons
3 Holmes
2 Moore
1 Slipper

and then you could rest key players and have a team like this for the EOYT

15 Izzy
14 Mitchell
13 TK
12 Giteau
11 JOC (James O'Connor)
10 Quade
9 Genia
8 Palu
7 Pocock
6 Fardy
5 Simmons
4 Horwill
3 Kepu
2 TPN
1 Slipper

Not those exact teams but would give some key players a rest, and a chance for others to spend some time in the gym during the off-season.

 

[ChargerWA]

I think the fact that about 8 of us have all come up with different players we think this new policy was written for, is evidence that the ARU have achieved a pretty good balance.

I originally didn't like the 60 Caps and 7 years requirement. I thought either/or would suffice. But with the Wallabies playing so many tests these days, a young guy like Hooper who made it in to the Wallabies as a youngin and hasn't had any injury time off could conceivably hit the 60 test in about 4 years.[/b]

 

[qwerty51]

Hooper was contracted with the ARU in 2010 (at the Brumbies).

Next year will be his 7th year. So could play overseas in 2017 and play for the Wallabies.

 

[Tomikin]

Hooper was contracted with the ARU in 2010 (at the Brumbies).

Next year will be his 7th year. So could play overseas in 2017 and play for the Wallabies.

Has he played 60 tests ?