Bledisloe 2 - Wallabies vs All Blacks, Wellington, 27 August 2016

[Viking]

We might as well bring George Smith into camp as well, maybe he can teach everyone bar Pocock what the hell to do at a breakdown.

He seemed to have an effect on England's breakdown work.

Who knows, he might even end up playing.

 

[KOB1987]

Has anyone with the playing credentials of Larkham or Thorn ever proven to be a good international coach?

*Ellas the exception that prove the rule

Which begs the question, what is the background for a good international rugby coach? School teachers seem to be a common theme, as do front rowers..interestingly.

 

[Quick Hands]

Which begs the question, what is the background for a good international rugby coach? School teachers seem to be a common theme, as do front rowers..interestingly.

Both Bob Dwyer and Rod McQueen started their coaching career coaching 4th grade at Randwick and Warringah respectively. Down there you constantly have to adapt and think on your feet. Each then moved seamlessly to higher teams, no doubt learning on the way.

Many of the current crop go straight from playing to elite professional coaching - not sure that this is the best preparation for the job at hand.

 

[Viking]

Which begs the question, what is the background for a good international rugby coach? School teachers seem to be a common theme, as do front rowers..interestingly.

If you look at Larkham's coaching resume he should be the future world rugby coach.

Played under successful coaches Connelly, Eddie Jones. Played in successful RWC campaigns and won super rugby comps.

Coached under World Cup winning coach Jake White in successful super rugby seasons.

Now coaching under Cheika another different style coach, also part of a pretty successful RWC campaign.

So many area's for him to learn what works and what doesn't. But he just can't apply it, at least not in an attacking sense which is his bloody job.

Some people just aren't meant to be coaches, or maybe the game is evolving so quickly and some people just can't keep up.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Giving DHP some benefit of the doubt after good series against England and that playing out of position. So lets see how he plays in his preferred fullback position.

Folau given more time at 13 could be the answer and Tahs moved him there as saw potential for him there - needs more game time at that position - and player of that talent could eventually master it to be world class 13 so given midfield been problem area and DHP been class full back for the Force (so lets see how he goes there and as you saying kicking option at the back would certainly also help as kicking been an issue).

So yep at this stage give DHP a go at his preferred position of fullback and does not perform - yes out of the 23 he goes - but worth seeing how he would go at his preferred position rather than playing him out of position. England series performance justifies giving him that opportunity.

 

[Viking]

Giving DHP some benefit of the doubt after good series against England and that playing out of position. So lets see how he plays in his preferred fullback position.

Folau given more time at 13 could be the answer and Tahs moved him there as saw potential for him there - needs more game time at that position - and player of that talent could eventually master it to be world class 13 so given midfield been problem area and DHP been class full back for the Force (so lets see how he goes there and as you saying kicking option at the back would certainly also help as kicking been an issue).

So yep at this stage give DHP a go at his preferred position of fullback and does not perform - yes out of the 23 he goes - but worth seeing how he would go at his preferred position rather than playing him out of position. England series performance justifies giving him that opportunity.

who plays wing then? Mitchell? No way am I expecting him to be fit enough.

I think Kerevi will be the better option at 13. Although I think Kuridrani might be hard done by given he made 13/13 tackles and no 13 in the country could have shined in last nights game.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

But shit, the ABs will never be weaker as they will next weekend. Forget Crotty and Fekitoa, that was never going to be as weak as some posters here thought. Fekitoa is a Highlander FFS, not exactly a team where a turnstile on defence keeps his position. But Crotty has a potential concussion, so could be in doubt. Naholo is out. We could well see a new cap at 12 and on the bench as wing cover. Coles played well despite injured ribs and all so I expect Coltman or Ash Dixon to cover hooker.

Coltman & Dixon seem the obvious candidates for the hooker spot(s), who do you think they'll go with in midfield & bench winger? Whatever they do I want Fekitoa to stay at 13 & I don't want to see Tamanivalu & Fekitoa on the field together at this point in their careers. Proctor, maybe? Or go totally left-field & run with 10. Cruden 12. Barrett 23. Procter. Or am I missing the obvious solution?

 

[zer0]

Lienert-Brown is a second-five, isn't he?

 

[Quick Hands]

If you look at Larkham's coaching resume he should be the future world rugby coach.

Played under successful coaches Connelly, Eddie Jones. Played in successful RWC campaigns and won super rugby comps.

Coached under World Cup winning coach Jake White in successful super rugby seasons.

Now coaching under Cheika another different style coach, also part of a pretty successful RWC campaign.

So many area's for him to learn what works and what doesn't. But he just can't apply it, at least not in an attacking sense which is his bloody job.

Some people just aren't meant to be coaches, or maybe the game is evolving so quickly and some people just can't keep up.

Is he actually coaching/teaching them anything? Or is he just running plays?

The convential wisdom on these threads that elite coaches shouldn't be teaching skills seems wrong to me. I'd have thought that every step up from 6s to test matches requires more skills and those skills to be done at higher speed and intensity under extreme fatigue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Played under successful coaches Connelly

Hold your horses. On one view of matters we're here because of him and Jones.

Is he actually coaching/teaching them anything? Or is he just running plays?

The convential wisdom on these threads that elite coaches shouldn't be teaching skills seems wrong to me. I'd have thought that every step up from 6s to test matches requires more skills and those skills to be done at higher speed and intensity under extreme fatigue.

At any level its just about combining basic skills in particular sequences in 99% of cases.
We don't even need to debate whether the national coaches should be imparting them: when they turn in a performance like last night its pretty obvious the players don't have them. That should make training easy - "fellas, we're just doing basic skills this week".

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Lienert-Brown is a second-five, isn't he?

Yes but he's also 21, I was thinking maybe they'd want someone a bit more experienced esp as Fekitoa's still pretty green himself. I'm struggling to think who that might be, the days of having Jason O'Halloran-type guys aged 26-29 & still waiting in the wings seem to be over.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes I was hoping Mitchell would be fit - as best wing option. If not fit would have Morahan. ie. Switch DHP still to 15 and Folau to 13. DHP been a form fullback for Super Rugby so let him play in that position and see how he goes and move a class athlete like Folau to the midfield to help fix a known problem area for the Wallabies.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

To be honest it has only been Kurindrani's outstanding defence that has kept him being booted for some time. As just offered nothing much in attack for quite some time.

Let him find his former attacking prowess and then he can up for selection but he has been given more than enough chances. Time for us to create some different options at 13.

 

[zer0]

Yes but he's also 21, I was thinking maybe they'd want someone a bit more experienced esp as Fekitoa's still pretty green himself. I'm struggling to think who that might be, the days of having Jason O'Halloran-type guys aged 26-29 & still waiting in the wings seem to be over.

A 21 year old second-five is better than a first-five-come-fullback being shifted into the midfield. Especially one that I don't think has ever played there at first class level.

Besides, if Retallick, Kaino, Read etc..... continue knocking over anyone in yellow, then he shouldn't be asked too many questions in defence.

 

[Dan54]

Lienert-Brown is a second-five, isn't he?

Yep and where he plays his best rugby to zer0. I would think they maybe would risk him, even if he only 21. There is a lot of ups if he is picked and comes through alright , might just be the start of a long career at 12 in the Black jersey.

 

[teach]

Hooker possibilities might also include James Parsons.
Lienert brown was brought into the squad for cover, so may as well use him. Tamanivalu just too defensively weak IMO. But maybe that has been worked on.
I think we could afford to start Brown, and if it all goes to shit, put Sopoaga into first and have Barrett move out one. Cruden's definitely #2 at best so it is about time Sopoaga had another run.

 

[saulityvi]

I think we could afford to start Brown, and if it all goes to shit, put Sopoaga into first and have Barrett move out one. Cruden's definitely #2 at best so it is about time Sopoaga had another run.

2013 JRWC I reckon Barret played first five and Sopoaga second five. Might be totally wrong, but Sopoaga could do a job there imo.

EDIT: the year was 2011 of course, Anscombe played 10, Sopoaga 12 and BB 15, at least in the final

http://www.worldrugby.org/match/12128

 

[aeneas]

I really did wonder who this dude was when he ran on on Saturday.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...es-has-come-from-nowhere-to-achieve-his-dream


Im still not convinced that NZ has the right mix in the midfield and given that Coles wasn't even meant to be in the side and ended up playing 77 minutes then I would suggest there's an issue with depth at hooker.

 

[Braveheart81]

So hard to know what to do after that debacle.

The reality is that we don't have the depth to make wholesale changes and injuries are going to force us to compromise on some changes we may have made as well.

I expect Kerevi and Cooper will both start next week but beyond that it's anyone's guess.

Foley, Kuridrani, DHP all had absolute clangers that cost us tries.

The forwards were a bunch of powder puffs and the total number of missed tackles were inexcusable (22 by the forwards and 18 by the backs).

 

[Lindommer]

So many Wallabies are either out of form or too old. How about:

1. Slipper
2. TPN
3. Kepu
4. Coleman
5. Douglas
6. Fardy
7. Pocock (c)
8. Timani
9. Phipps
10. Cooper
11. Folau
12. Hodge
13. Kerevi
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. DHP
16. Ready/Hanson, others can decide
17. Sio
18. Smith
19. Arnold if fit, otherwise Simmons
20. Hooper
21. McMahon
22. Frisby
23. To'omua if fit, otherwise Kuridrani

We're desperately short of wingers in Oz rugby ATM who're either fast or strong, big Taqele isn't the answer to any of our problems. Maybe Folau could go back to where he started with a brief to rove as much as he likes and Hodge start at 12.