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CAS Rugby 2011

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Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
Waverley were the outright winners of The Henry Plume Shield in 1979, going through the CAS season undefeated, but yes snort i do understand and agree with your point. "Brawling" should be left out of the game, and if players wish to do so, maybe a switch to sports such as rugby league would be more suited.

Sorry, but not quite, meathead. There was no Henry Plume Shield in 1979. The competition in 1979 was "unofficial". As to whether Waverley was undefeated, you may be right. I know they stumbled to a draw with Trinity and if memory serves they lost to St Patricks. There was disagreement that year as to whether the St Pats game counted in the unofficial premiership - essentially the schools who beat St Pats said they did and those that lost said that they were too unofficial to be included in the unofficial competition. Anyway, it wasn't a bad Waverley side, though not as good as the ones that followed in the early 80s, with Tim Kava and the Burkes.
 
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meathead

Guest
Sorry, but not quite, meathead. There was no Henry Plume Shield in 1979. The competition in 1979 was "unofficial". As to whether Waverley was undefeated, you may be right. I know they stumbled to a draw with Trinity and if memory serves they lost to St Patricks. There was disagreement that year as to whether the St Pats game counted in the unofficial premiership - essentially the schools who beat St Pats said they did and those that lost said that they were too unofficial to be included in the unofficial competition. Anyway, it wasn't a bad Waverley side, though not as good as the ones that followed in the early 80s, with Tim Kava and the Burkes.

Snort, i submit to your superior knowledge of life. You win

I know its early, but what are people thoughts on next years CAS competition? Will it be better contested than this years? Higher or lower quality of play?
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
I know its early, but what are people thoughts on next years CAS competition? Will it be better contested than this years? Higher or lower quality of play?

The overall standard has to be better next year, doesn't it?

My observation this year has been that quite a few sides were well-drilled in the forwards. I saw very little to match this in the backs. A lot of teams just shovelled the ball sideways without having all that much ability to break the defensive line. I don't know who is coming through the 16s but (Trinity exempted) this hasn't been a good year.

What puzzles me is that the teams are better coached than they have ever been, or at least more extensively coached. Every side seems to have a team of two or three coaches and the fitness/conditioning side is also looked after well. Yet fundamental skills often seemed lacking this year. I wonder why.
 

Elfster

Dave Cowper (27)
What puzzles me is that the teams are better coached than they have ever been, or at least more extensively coached. Every side seems to have a team of two or three coaches and the fitness/conditioning side is also looked after well. Yet fundamental skills often seemed lacking this year. I wonder why.

The lack of 'fundamental skills', unfortunately hasn't been solely applied to the schools Rugby this year. It must just be an Australian thing - go for the flashy stuff and have little consideration for the basic skills and hard graft.

Though especially at the schools and junior levels if the coaching regimes can't instill a respect for the basics and get them right, there are issues. More so when some sides have actually seem to have gone backwards in some key skill areas. Though the reasons could be plentiful and not just coaching reasons.
 
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Casnovian

Guest
Referees

I couldn't help notice the GPS thread discussion on referees. It was a pleasure to see George Ayoub (TMO -Super Rugby) take charge of the Seconds game of Trinity and Barker. Whilst there were some spats and disagreement between some players and a venting of frustrations at the end, George (regardless of his stature) always had firm control and fostered a reasonable contest. Barker won 14 to 10.

Rumour has it another Super Rugby referee will take control of the firsts Trinity vs Knox game this weekend. I don't believe it is the other Trinity teacher as I understand it would be considered imprudent for them to referee their own school's first XV.
 

Oldpig

Stan Wickham (3)
The lack of 'fundamental skills', unfortunately hasn't been solely applied to the schools Rugby this year. It must just be an Australian thing - go for the flashy stuff and have little consideration for the basic skills and hard graft.

Though especially at the schools and junior levels if the coaching regimes can't instill a respect for the basics and get them right, there are issues. More so when some sides have actually seem to have gone backwards in some key skill areas. Though the reasons could be plentiful and not just coaching reasons.

This is an interesting take on the current thread and I for one would like to see this discussion taken further, perhaps even a new thread started to discuss the quality and direction of coaching in both school boys and club rugby. From my observations and involvement thru my son's rugby (both school & club) it seems to me that the standards of coaching are varied and inconsistent to say the least.
I'm going back a few years now but I do remember very clearly being taught about the basics of rugby when playing in the juniors and that was all about structure, your position and its role in the bigger picture, body height, the contest, support the ball carrier & playing as team. Watching junior rugby now, both school boys & club its hard to see how any of these kids are going to progress thru the ranks to anything meaningful at representative level as they have very little understanding of the game and its meaning. This is a generalization and there will always be exceptions so please don't shot the messenger.
Watching both club & school rugby this season there seems to be a big gap in skills between these two competitions and even from one school to another yet a lot of these boys are playing both. So what is missing?
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
I couldn't help notice the GPS thread discussion on referees. It was a pleasure to see George Ayoub (TMO -Super Rugby) take charge of the Seconds game of Trinity and Barker. Whilst there were some spats and disagreement between some players and a venting of frustrations at the end, George (regardless of his stature) always had firm control and fostered a reasonable contest. Barker won 14 to 10.

Rumour has it another Super Rugby referee will take control of the firsts Trinity vs Knox game this weekend. I don't believe it is the other Trinity teacher as I understand it would be considered imprudent for them to referee their own school's first XV.

ALL refereeing appointments for CAS & GPS 1st & 2nd XV are handled by NSWRU Referee department - there is a woeful shortage of referees this season,so as i undertsand it - Ayoub was press-ganged into taking the 2nds. Shortage aside - my observation is that this season we have probably had the best appoitmnents to CAS 1sts for many years. Nathan Pearce was meant to do a schools game a few weekes ago as well.

BTW - fom that GPS thread - it had more to do with the reported bias of the home appointed referee in a 16A fixture. Many years ago I am told that CAS & GPS asked NSWRU to take on the 16A fixture. NSWRU wanted it played before 2nd XV so that 16A ref could run line for 1st XV - the idea died there - too much change for them to cope with.
 
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Casnovian

Guest
Thanks M.O.T.H. - you live and learn as I didn't know how the referees allocation worked for senior teams. I was a little worried with how 16As were refereed and thought the same applied to the more senior teams.

Having lived through the progression from under 6 soccer through to senior schoolboy representative rugby (with a number of sports in between) referee's (umpires what ever you may call them) are always between a rock and a hard place from the onset. As it will always be difficult to comprehend some calls now and then, I don't think (in any of the amateur sports I have been associated with - and rugby does not hold the title for "shockers" ). Referees have never received enough support from the sporting community (and the sport executives) in general.

The administrative approach (reinforcement of laws and regulations as they are highlighted and dictated from time to time) maybe part of the solution - however sometimes this results in some in referees being perceived (incorrectly) as "protected species" - where one can complain and there may be a process to follow for a grievance - but often seen as a waste of time as more than not, there is little or no feedback or response. Or a blunt "that is the way it is.

Sorry that is the way it was - transparency is a good thing. Explanation on and off the field are the most fundamental of expectations by all associated with whatever sport nowadays.

Successful industries are full of excellent continuous improvement programs easily adapted to the management of all sports. Time for some change, to provide further support and assistance for the "whistle blowers". Which would include increased peer review, assessment and ongoing regular certification (credentialing) for competency and capability, Individual performance plans, issue escalation protocols, mentors etc, etc. These all may exist. Definitely need some further investment though - as it is very clear - there is great potential for continued improvement.
 
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meathead

Guest
What are everyones predictions for this weekend? Will the star studded Knox side be able to hold up against the unbeaten trinity?
 

Done that

Ron Walden (29)
I can't comment on the competition as a whole , but I watched the Barker v Trinity game on the weekend , & was highly impressed by the Trinity team's skills , particularly handling , backing up , & creating openings , on the other hand their lineout was
not particularly competitive , & they were hammered in the penalties.
I also thought Barker played better than the scores might suggest , Trinity were just playing at another level.
 

thecow

Ward Prentice (10)
ALL refereeing appointments for CAS & GPS 1st & 2nd XV are handled by NSWRU Referee department - there is a woeful shortage of referees this season,so as i undertsand it - Ayoub was press-ganged into taking the 2nds. Shortage aside - my observation is that this season we have probably had the best appoitmnents to CAS 1sts for many years. Nathan Pearce was meant to do a schools game a few weekes ago as well.

BTW - fom that GPS thread - it had more to do with the reported bias of the home appointed referee in a 16A fixture. Many years ago I am told that CAS & GPS asked NSWRU to take on the 16A fixture. NSWRU wanted it played before 2nd XV so that 16A ref could run line for 1st XV - the idea died there - too much change for them to cope with.

Yes it is true - Stuart Dickinson has been appointed to the Trinity Knox 1st XV match this week. Actually, knowing a lot of the referees, some weeks have been really good with the appointments. However, and this is due to the shortage, some of them have not been so good. All 1st XV referees last week were what is considered "D" grade referees, who mainly referee 4th Grade, 2nd Colts, Burke Cup, Barraclough Cup and GPS 2nd XV. Unfortunately we have not had many "A" grade referees this year, but getting "B" is pretty good in the CAS competition.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
Yes it is true - Stuart Dickinson has been appointed to the Trinity Knox 1st XV match this week.

Will be interesting to see him doing schools & whether the Trinity boys try to play their Jedi mind games with him - anyone want to run a book on the number of yellows for dissent & repeat offence?
 
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Casnovian

Guest
Will be interesting to see him doing schools & whether the Trinity boys try to play their Jedi mind games with him - anyone want to run a book on the number of yellows for dissent & repeat offence?

Yep... as long as you factor in games Knox have played - their last two games resulted in three "red" cards between Cranbrook and Waverly. Coincidental? . Where there is smoke - yabber yabber ....

Itchy and scratchy both playing on the weekend for TGS. They didn't play first round. As will Clunies Ross on the wing - if all goes as planned. Look forward to a bottler!

How did Knox go with their Waratah Shield quarter final against Mudgee High - due to be played by today?
 
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Casnovian

Guest
How did Knox go with their Waratah Shield quarter final against Mudgee High - due to be played by today?[/QUOTE]

SMH - today reported Knox won 30 to 14.

Could be interesting now as semis are due by 17 August.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
Yep... as long as you factor in games Knox have played - their last two games resulted in three "red" cards between Cranbrook and Waverly. Coincidental? . Where there is smoke - yabber yabber ....

Itchy and scratchy both playing on the weekend for TGS. They didn't play first round. As will Clunies Ross on the wing - if all goes as planned. Look forward to a bottler!

How did Knox go with their Waratah Shield quarter final against Mudgee High - due to be played by today?

What sorts of suspensions were handed out – the usual fairy tap on the wrist? In any other competition red equals an automatic one week suspension.

Also – my oil is that Clunies will be making his comeback in a lower team – maybe even 4ths. Who are itchy & scratchy?
 

Iluvmyfooty

Phil Hardcastle (33)
How did Knox go with their Waratah Shield quarter final against Mudgee High - due to be played by today?

SMH - today reported Knox won 30 to 14.

Could be interesting now as semis are due by 17 August.[/QUOTE]

Semis will be played on 17 August at camden.
 
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Casnovian

Guest
What sorts of suspensions were handed out – the usual fairy tap on the wrist? In any other competition red equals an automatic one week suspension.

Also – my oil is that Clunies will be making his comeback in a lower team – maybe even 4ths. Who are itchy & scratchy?

No idea - understand that the players seem to think it was an automatic one game suspension. Perhaps a good thing for Clunies Ross to come back in a lower grade - he has been running up and down the sideline - seems to be running freely- however understand two of the first XV wingers are on the injured list - Jono Pack and Jake Roberts. Jake may also be out of 16s SJRU vs Country on Sunday.

Itchy and scratchy - the Orr brothers - seems they play well when they do what brothers do - push each other's buttons. Harrison O badly dislocated his little finger in the first few seconds of last game at Knox. Cameron O popped his kneecap vs Barker the week before and missed the last two rounds and most of the reps. Seems to be motoring very well at the moment.
 

smokinjoe

Ward Prentice (10)
Next years CAS 1st XV

I know its early, but what are people thoughts on next years CAS competition? Will it be better contested than this years? Higher or lower quality of play?
I look at the 2nd XV results and bear in mind that Trinity have plenty of under 16s in the current 1st XV and are looking to win in 2013 especially, so Trinity for the next 2 years.

I'd predict for 2012
Trinity
Knox
Waverley
Barker
St Aloysius
Cranbrook

But Aloys under 16s are last this year so maybe Cranbrook will come up a place
 
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