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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
We started yesterday with just over 1800 confirmed cases and finished it with 2144. Pretty sure that's the biggest jump yet.

But that's to be expected isn't it? The more people that gets infected, the more that people will infect. Isn't the infecting rate still hovering around doubling every three days (so that 1800 should be 3600 Thursday sometime).

I'd imagine yesterday was made worse due to the increase in reported cases from the Cruiser?
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Jesus wept.

Who voted Liberal in that deadshit's electorate? That presser was about as incomprehensible as Sunday's.

My favourite: no gatherings of people outside of 10 or more. Directly countermanding the "Personal training outdoors maximum 10 people with 1.5m distancing"

OMFG.



My favourite part is schools to remain open.......... but families - pick which ten people get to attend grandpa's funeral.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Would you like to learn a dirty little secret of mine? I actually think NSW State Libs are actually the better party to lead this state and haven't done that bad if a job. I may have even put them down as no.2 on my ballet at the last state election.

But they are a different beast to the Federal Coalition which is a bunch of morally corrupt, backwards oriented gaggle of fools. Who forced through a survey on marriage equality even though it was obvious from a dozen previous polls what that outcome was, insist on punishing people in welfare for the very crime of needing to be in welfare by refusing to met basic CPI increases in their allowance, are pissing away millions new BMW's that will save $100k a year as opposed to buying the much cheaper Toyota hybrids in greater numbers instead that would save a great deal more, deny science and fact around climate change and energy developments and use public funds in a manner that is borderline criminal to buy votes.

And maybe I'm a little frustrated as I've just had to settle my mother down over the phone as she's currently terrified to go into work. Why? Because the restrictions of 4 sqm and 30 mins per client are impossible to manage as a Hairdresser and she risks direct exposure to people in close proxmity on a daily basis.



The answer is simple, and made easier with the borders being shut down.........

Secession of the states.

It might also be what we need to kickstart rugby in this, er, these great nations of ours.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
But that's to be expected isn't it? The more people that gets infected, the more that people will infect. Isn't the infecting rate still hovering around doubling every three days (so that 1800 should be 3600 Thursday sometime).

I'd imagine yesterday was made worse due to the increase in reported cases from the Cruiser?

So you wouldn't call a doubling of confirmed cases every three days constitutes a spike? 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000, 32000 etc.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
The answer is simple, and made easier with the borders being shut down...

Secession of the states.

It might also be what we need to kickstart rugby in this, er, these great nations of ours.

Ha. I won't lie. I was recently wondering exactly how much money we contribute to the Federal coffers by way of GST compared to how much we receive?

I reckon NSW and VIC could actually do it.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Australia should be attempting the NZ method ASAP. Go hard, go early. But, unfortunately, time is running short.

"We need politicians to clearly state what our end game is," Professor Blakely said. "If we are aiming to flatten the curve, the answer is no, we don’t need to do more just yet," ... He said there had been seven deaths in Australia and the health system was not yet at risk of being overwhelmed. "We are not yet at the point of the UK," he said.​
"If we are flattening the curve we are probably at the right level of distancing. We need to monitor and set targets and if we are not hitting them we need to tighten up the screws."​
However, he said if Australia wanted to eradicate the virus - as New Zealand was attempting to do with its four-week shutdown - politicians had about 48 hours to enforce stronger measures.​

The so-called "flattening-the-curve" game is only a second-choice option. It will be prolonged much longer for more pain overall.

Individual states might just have to go it alone on lockdowns, as the the way forward.
 

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
So you wouldn't call a doubling of confirmed cases every three days constitutes a spike? 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000, 32000 etc.

It's more, the doubling rate hasn't 'really' changed. We've been continuing on the path of doubling every 3 days for weeks. So the numbers on a daily basis seem higher, but its within what is currently expected. The social distancing/closing up shop are measures to increase the doubling rate from 3 days to 4, 5, 6 (or greater).

The AFR had this article a few days ago -https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/why-six-is-the-magic-coronavirus-number-20200320-p54c33

A health professor explained it this way: "The R0 ( better known as R naught) is how many people are infected by one person. For Covid 19 it is 1.5 to 3.5 at present but it will come down as eventually more are infected."

"It takes about 5.8 days for the next person to get symptoms so you have to get your doubling rate over that to push the curve down."

"Australia is tracking at doubling every 3-4 days. We probably only got serious about [social distancing remedies] on the weekend but if by early next week we are not drifting out to 5-6 day doubling, it means there is so much virus out there the current measures are not working."
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
According to The Australian ($), NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian told attendees of a confidential partyroom meeting that the Australian Border Force is responsible for the decision to release 2700 passengers from the Ruby Princess cruise ship and should wear the blame for the unfolding contagion — which, as of yesterday, has seen one 70-year-old female passenger die from the virus.

LAW OF THE SEA: Shine Lawyers has since received enquiries from passengers and is currently investigating avenues to bring claims over illness and damage suffered, The Daily Telegraph ($) reports.

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/03/25/worm-morrison-shutdowns-travelling-overseas/
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
The Ruby Princess is owned and operated by Carnival Cruises.

The CEO and Chair of Carnival Cruises is Ann Sherry.

Ann Sherry until recently was a Director of Rugby Australia.

Ann Sherry should be ________.

(Don’t want to land on the wrong side of our defamation laws.)
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
The Ruby Princess is owned and operated by Carnival Cruises.

The CEO and Chair of Carnival Cruises is Ann Sherry.

Ann Sherry until recently was a Director of Rugby Australia.

Ann Sherry should be ________.

(Don’t want to land on the wrong side of our defamation laws.)


It was a trip around the South Pacific (not through any hot beds of virus death) and they were told to self isolate at home when they arrived, that was not bad advice at the time
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
CORONA-31.jpg
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Border Force now saying that NSW Health was at fault, saying they didn't follow the same procedures as VIC Health had done a few days prior when a cruise ship docked down here.........
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
He just spent 20 minutes detailing why his hands are clean, and it’s all down to NSW Health.

but he’s not pointing fingers.......
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Recent update from the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee (states, territories and commonwealth chief health and medical officers) on social distancing measures.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/aust...e-to-national-cabinet-about-social-distancing

Epidemiology:
- cases with no link to returned travellers are starting to occur in specific geographic regions
- severe disease and death rate is very low, but test-positive rate is increasing
- weddings and religious services continue to feature in transmission events

Clarification of current measures:
- AHPPC has clarified the list of non-essential indoor gatherings to cease to include:
  • all galleries, museums, libraries
  • all auction houses, real estate auctions and open house inspections (excluding private inspections)
  • organised meetings for social, educational or recreational purposes (e.g. Rotary, U3A, mothers groups etc.). Domestic violence, drug and alcohol support groups are considered essential services and can continue.
  • all health clubs, fitness centres, yoga, barre and spin facilities, saunas, bath houses and wellness centres
  • amusement parks, arcade and play centres
  • gaming or gambling venues not currently covered by the casino or licensed venue restrictions
  • brothels and sex premises
  • strong recommendation to limit unnecessary visitors to private homes, including private events in homes.
Other clarifications:
  • shops that remain open must have a 1 person per 4 square metre rule
  • funerals with fewer than 10 people (plus 1:4m rule) may proceed
  • weddings may only proceed with couple, celebrant and witnesses
  • places of worship should be closed
  • universities to move to online platforms, implement 1:4m rule and consider closing student residential accommodation (!)
Outdoor gatherings
  • AHPPC recommends cessation of outdoor gatherings, with a limit of no more than 10 persons
  • closing all organised sporting events, including outdoor sport and swimming pools
Additional measures in a next stage of more intense social distancing
  • AHPPC notes that new measures are only recently introduced, including restrictive border measures and enhanced quarantine for returning citizens. It is too early to assess the impact of current social distancing measures.
  • AHPPC noted there is scope for more aggressive contact tracing and enforcement of quarantine for contacts; this is in progress and is of equal importance to the social distancing measures
  • further escalation of these measures should be held in reserve until some assessment of the initial measures is possible
  • the next step, if required, is a "carefully considered closure of all activity except essential industries and services".
All states and territories are in agreement with the above position, except Victoria, who expressed a desire for even stronger measures at this time.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Border Force now saying that NSW Health was at fault, saying they didn't follow the same procedures as VIC Health had done a few days prior when a cruise ship docked down here...


Amazing that the government department which has responsibility for all matters relating to immigration and customs claims they have no responsibility for international arrivals during a pandemic.

It's pretty clear that both NSW Health and Border Force are absolutely culpable in relation to this. Neither should have given the green light to let the passengers off the ship.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I don't think we need to pull the ultimate trigger just yet. We haven't seen what the current measures have done to curve the infection rate and the poor management of the cruiser has done nothing to let us know whether any of the voluntary social distancing has helped. (Perhaps Trumpy was right on not letting that Cruiser dock in the States last month ;)).

Unfortunately its just a wait and see for the next week or two unless there's a huge spike.


I don't see what the downside of going into lockdown now is. We're progressively restricting more and more activities/businesses but still not taking the serious steps to stop the movement of people in public where it isn't absolutely necessary.

Scomo keeps arguing that we can't take this next step without being prepared for it to last for many months. I don't really understand that logic. You can lift it at any time.

The logic that we need to wait to see what the current measures do is poor because it takes a significant amount of time to see what those results are.

There is no example around the world so far where you could reasonably argue that the steps taken were too extreme.
 

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
Scomo keeps arguing that we can't take this next step without being prepared for it to last for many months. I don't really understand that logic. You can lift it at any time.

The logic that we need to wait to see what the current measures do is poor because it takes a significant amount of time to see what those results are.

I guess if we play what a full lockdown looks like; close down for 2 - 4 weeks, open up for 4 - 6 weeks, close down for 2 - 4 weeks (repeat until vaccine comes out). I honestly don't know how someone could operate a business like that between finding staff, getting stock, fulfilling sales etc You're better off keeping some form of consistency and a partial lockdown like we're on now should have been done weeks ago.

People dismiss the economy argument, but we saw the sheer amount of people now needing unemployment benefits. If you constantly add more to it, it's going to make it harder to support those people and provide funding for those Government services such as Health and paying health care workers' wages. Adding more people just makes the spiral harder to come out off.

Simply looking at the numbers, its difficult to even know if you're comparing apples to apples. Plenty of countries could be under reporting through not providing testing.

Unfortunately trying to find 'live/current' tests conducted is hard, the last comprehensive update was 4 days ago - https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#current-covid-19-test-coverage-estimates

But, Australia was the 3rd highest in tests conducted per person (behind UAE and South Korea). South Korea's stats are seen to be the most 'truthful' due to the sheer amount of tests being done, so you get a better picture on what's going on. In an equivalent period, South Korea had 6,284 confirmed cases, Australia is currently at 2,144 with more to come later today. They also had a body count of 44 deaths to our 8. If you take in account their 52 million to our 25 million population and double each; if we come under 3,000 today and 20 deaths then we're either on track or doing a good job.

Now, why I think its important to look at this is, based on the models going around, at current rate, Australia's ICU beds are deemed to be full by April 11, if it goes to 4 days to double its April 18 (Norway) and if we get to South Korea of 5 days to Double its April 25th. - https://blog.grattan.edu.au/2020/03...uXM94ZqkooxnI6Np6qpaxIB1uNF0BspdDrlz9ZEd-CtLU

So realistically speaking, people should be bracing that peak ICU will happen one way or another and prepare themselves for the hard truth that our older generation and vulnerable members may not be able to beat the virus. As a immunologist said to me, we'll see a spike in the death rate this year, but a drop in the proceeding years as those people who died in 2020 may have died in the next 2 to 5 years.

South Korea didn't shut down like China and have been touted as flattening the curve through rigorous testing and contact tracing. As it stands, Australia is on a similar path, however stupid shit like the beaches and releasing of cruise line passengers have made it so difficult.

With that all in mind, I think if we continue the economic crash, you will place more people under financial duress which will lead to an increase in suicide rates and poorer health outcomes as financially stressed people can't afford healthy produce and will resort to price point shopping.

I apologise for such a wall of text, but that's my thought train on it not being a simple answer of 'shut her down'.
 
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