COVID-19 Stuff Here

[Slim 293]

An anecdote to refute your statement:
Controversial Liberal MP (Moana Pasifika) Craig Kelly has been suspended from Facebook for at least seven days over his promotion of unorthodox COVID-19 treatments and theories.
Mr Kelly’s temporary ban from Facebook is due to at least five posts he put up early last month promoting drugs such as hydroxychloroquine, and he has called the suspension of his popular social media page a “dark day for freedom of speech”. (The Australian)

I don't think that refutes what the Brown Hornet was getting at.........

And Craig Kelly is just another fruitcake who doesn't understand the concept of freedom of speech.

Also, what kind of half-baked, anti-scientific idiot would still be dumb (or gullible) enough to be promoting hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

An anecdote to refute your statement:
Controversial Liberal MP (Moana Pasifika) Craig Kelly has been suspended from Facebook for at least seven days over his promotion of unorthodox COVID-19 treatments and theories.
Mr Kelly’s temporary ban from Facebook is due to at least five posts he put up early last month promoting drugs such as hydroxychloroquine, and he has called the suspension of his popular social media page a “dark day for freedom of speech”. (The Australian)

I was more referring to the US, but your point is well made.

 

[fatprop]

Also, what kind of half-baked, anti-scientific idiot would still be dumb (or gullible) enough to be promoting hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment?

I did get amused with the sudden "dangers" of HCQ once the trump said it helped, millions of HCQ tablets are consumed daily around the third world and have for years

 

[formerflanker]

I was more referring to the US, but your point is well made.

Point taken.

 

[formerflanker]

Also, what kind of half-baked, anti-scientific idiot would still be dumb (or gullible) enough to be promoting hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment?

Here's just one:
Harvey Risch, professor of epidemiology at the prestigious Yale School of Public Health, has long argued that hydroxychloroquine — used with zinc and given to patients very early in their sickness, before their immune system overreacts — is “the key to defeating this virus”.

 

[fatprop]

Here's just one:
Harvey Risch, professor of epidemiology at the prestigious Yale School of Public Health, has long argued that hydroxychloroquine — used with zinc and given to patients very early in their sickness, before their immune system overreacts — is “the key to defeating this virus”.

and all HCQ does is act as a transport to get stuff into cells more effectively

 

[Braveheart81]

Here's just one:
Harvey Risch, professor of epidemiology at the prestigious Yale School of Public Health, has long argued that hydroxychloroquine — used with zinc and given to patients very early in their sickness, before their immune system overreacts — is “the key to defeating this virus”.

And here's the Dean of the school having to respond to that:

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/26290/

Basically saying that while he supports Dr Risch's ability to participate in open academic discourse, the available evidence from the FDA doesn't support Risch's position.

The continued clutching to hydroxychloroquine as some miracle cure by certain groups in the face of massive amounts of evidence that there are better treatments available is absolutely bizarre.

 

[fatprop]

The continued clutching to hydroxychloroquine as some miracle cure by certain groups in the face of massive amounts of evidence that there are better treatments available is absolutely bizarre.

It definitely ain't a miracle cure and there maybe better treatments, but for a lot of the 3rd world, it is all they have available and can afford

 

[Braveheart81]

It definitely ain't a miracle cure and there maybe better treatments, but for a lot of the 3rd world, it is all they have available and can afford

I don't think Craig Kelly or any of the Qanon nutters have been on this bandwagon because they're advocating for treatment of people in the third world. It has very much been about the use here.

The whole situation where they keep latching onto drugs that have been trialed and found to be less effective than other drugs available is pretty weird. On one hand most of this group thinks COVID-19 is a conspiracy and isn't actually real and then on the other hand they're demanding that they be allowed to use less effective drugs for treatment of it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I have to admit that I started to get a bit lost with the state of trials/evidence/effectiveness of the proposed treatments. Having something that was already widely available and unequivocally effective would have made this whole situation a lot easier.

 

[cyclopath]

I have to admit that I started to get a bit lost with the state of trials/evidence/effectiveness of the proposed treatments. Having something that was already widely available and unequivocally effective would have made this whole situation a lot easier.

Like social distancing and masks?
Jokes aside, people clutch onto things that sound simple over things that sound like they might take more effort. Regardless of outcomes.
HCQ has been proposed by its proponents as simple and easy (yet, it's a drug, so it can have side effects), so let's take it and just get on with life (spread, spread, spread). So far the robust evidence as to its effectiveness has just not been there.
Vaccines will be a big step, but their use won't simply replace good public health measures - see point 1 above!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Like social distancing and masks?
Jokes aside, people clutch onto things that sound simple over things that sound like they might take more effort. Regardless of outcomes.
HCQ has been proposed by its proponents as simple and easy (yet, it's a drug, so it can have side effects), so let's take it and just get on with life (spread, spread, spread). So far the robust evidence as to its effectiveness has just not been there.
Vaccines will be a big step, but their use won't simply replace good public health measures - see point 1 above!

But of course! I was even confused about the advice around masks for a while. Were they effective, were they not? I understand the logic behind them but I recall at the beginning of the pandemic I read advice that they weren't that effective. This wasn't from conspiracy theorists, but actual medical people.

 

[formerflanker]

This ordinary punter is very confused about masks.
From the top American infectious disease expert (Dr. Fauci) we have had:
Don't wear masks.
Wear masks.
Wear masks but also use social distancing.
Wear 2 masks.
Keep wearing masks for the next several months while the vaccine is rolled out to everyone.

 

[Braveheart81]

But of course! I was even confused about the advice around masks for a while. Were they effective, were they not? I understand the logic behind them but I recall at the beginning of the pandemic I read advice that they weren't that effective. This wasn't from conspiracy theorists, but actual medical people.

Masks are effective at preventing you from passing on the virus (or any other illness spread by aerosols like colds and influenza).

They are less effective at preventing you from catching it from someone else unless you are using a higher rated mask such as an N95 mask and other PPE gear (and then are also good at donning and doffing it without compromising yourself).

The rationale for people to wear them is that most of the spread happens from people who don't yet know they have COVID but are contagious.

A lot of the advice, particularly early on was confusing because people were talking about them for different purposes. I.e. a standard surgical mask is going to provide very little protection for someone who is exposed to someone with COVID.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I get all that but the messaging was very mixed at the beginning and I was left scratching my head. I like to keep myself somewhat informed and the commentary wasn't helping!

 

[fatprop]

Vaccines will be a big step, but their use won't simply replace good public health measures - see point 1 above!

My sister in law is a PHD research scientist type, she reckons this new type of vaccine has the potential to be as an important step as penicillin was with loads of possible applications

 

[Rob42]

If the vaccine rollout is to be successful in opening up interstate and international travel, we're going to have to become more accepting of COVID circulating in the community. If anything, our appetite for risk has decreased over the past few months - now we're locking down entire states due to one or two cases.

If we open up the international border once everyone's been vaccinated, then COVID-positive people will enter the country, and the virus will be circulating in the community. We'll need to be able to accept that, and recognise that the vaccines (assuming they continue to work as expected) have reduced the risk of serious disease down to something closer to seasonal flu.

But I'm not sure if people will accept that, having spent at least 12 months (by then) freaking out about single cases.

 

[Dctarget]

If the vaccine rollout is to be successful in opening up interstate and international travel, we're going to have to become more accepting of COVID circulating in the community. If anything, our appetite for risk has decreased over the past few months - now we're locking down entire states due to one or two cases.

If we open up the international border once everyone's been vaccinated, then COVID-positive people will enter the country, and the virus will be circulating in the community. We'll need to be able to accept that, and recognise that the vaccines (assuming they continue to work as expected) have reduced the risk of serious disease down to something closer to seasonal flu.

But I'm not sure if people will accept that, having spent at least 12 months (by then) freaking out about single cases.

Yeah I often wonder about what percentage of people will need to be vaccinated before the caps are lifted and quarantine is done away with. I fear it'd be above 70%. Interesting that the Govt. hasn't said anything about their roadmap.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

My sister in law is a PHD research scientist type, she reckons this new type of vaccine has the potential to be as an important step as penicillin was with loads of possible applications

There is a great article by Matt Ridley on this topic. His view is similar, that this vaccine development is potentially huge:

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/mrna-vaccines-could-revolutionise-medicine/

 

[fatprop]

There is a great article by Matt Ridley on this topic. His view is similar, that this vaccine development is potentially huge:

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/mrna-vaccines-could-revolutionise-medicine/

It is a strange moment to be so hopeful that it is that huge, while also thinking of the 100s of scripts/movies where that brand new drug to save the world from a pandemic is the precursor to a zombie apocalypse