Federal Coalition Government 2013-?

[Braveheart81]

Senate committee review with press present and questions asked.

That still doesn't really give you any indication on whether taxpayer money on the military is well spent or necessary.

If the defence force says that we need 58 Joint Strike Fighters because they are integral to our strategic air defence and military strength then no one is really in a position to doubt it with any sort of certainty.

I mean the only way to test it is to get invaded or invade someone else so it's not like it's plausible to test the premise that certain bits of military spending are essential.

 

[Gnostic]

That still doesn't really give you any indication on whether taxpayer money on the military is well spent or necessary.

If the defence force says that we need 58 Joint Strike Fighters because they are integral to our strategic air defence and military strength then no one is really in a position to doubt it with any sort of certainty.

I mean the only way to test it is to get invaded or invade someone else so it's not like it's plausible to test the premise that certain bits of military spending are essential.

It also doesn't address the concerns that there were better platforms available at the time this procurement contract was determined that were actually in production.

Is the JSF actually in production yet? The last reports I read on it was that of the two working prototypes one had been crashed and the other was grounded. The issues surrounding the battle systems had also not been worked out.

Given that the Eurofighter Typhoon as an example, could have been already in service for a lesser price and is a battle proven platform. I do not accept the premise that @Runner suggested that it wasn't considered due to range considerations. The Eurofighter group was in Australia to make the presentation when the JSF deal was announced. That says they weren't told they didn't even meet specs don't bother coming. Also consider that the stop gap aircraft, the F18 Super Hornet, that has had to be purchased to cover the forced retirement of the F111 and the lateness of the JSF has less capability than the F111 it replaces and the Typhoon. Now consider the reports today (radio) saying that the government has now been told that the specs of the JSF are being re-written downgrading acceleration and rate of turn as neither engine or air frame performance has met expectations. This whole purchase (along with the 2nd hand equipment) is to my mind tied up with some other factor in the Alliance. Or at least I certainly hope it is otherwise we have reached a whole new level on ineptitude from the monkeys that infest the Parliament.

 

[Ruggo]

Military spending is about the only area of government where taxpayers aren't the direct stakeholders to see the results of their spending.

We spend many billions of dollars a year and unlike other government departments, taxpayers aren't really aware when the money is poorly used as there are no direct services provided to the public.

After all the issues and delays with the JSF program it is mind boggling that we have signed up to buy many more of the things.

There is not a great return on investment. I think the civilian tax payer would be pretty angry if they saw the level of productivity during an average day on a military establishment.

Don't dare hold them to account if you don't want claims made against you that you don't support the troops.

 

[Ruggo]

That still doesn't really give you any indication on whether taxpayer money on the military is well spent or necessary.

If the defence force says that we need 58 Joint Strike Fighters because they are integral to our strategic air defence and military strength then no one is really in a position to doubt it with any sort of certainty.

I mean the only way to test it is to get invaded or invade someone else so it's not like it's plausible to test the premise that certain bits of military spending are essential.

Well we did invade Iraq.

Australia's only realistic protection from aggression is strong diplomacy. We just don't have the population to defend ourselves hand to hand. No military hardware will change that.

Keating is absolutely dead set right when he says we need to find our security from within Asia and not from it.

 

[Runner]

Perhaps. Do you have fire insurance? Only way to test it is to ... obvious. But you still have it.

 

[boyo]

TA said that "The government will be one of no surprises" and "No country has ever taxed its way to prosperity".

Hmmm

 

[Ruggo]

Perhaps. Do you have fire insurance? Only way to test it is to . obvious. But you still have it.

That is a shithouse analogy. Sure you have fire insurance but the smart thing to do is install a fire break.

 

[Runner]

That is a shithouse analogy. Sure you have fire insurance but the smart thing to do is install a fire break.

For you perhaps its not a good analogy but it works for me and others I am sure.

A fire break could also be the same thing. Either way you will pay and hope it never gets used.

 

[redstragic]

For you perhaps its not a good analogy but it works for me and others I am sure.

A fire break could also be the same thing. Either way you will pay and hope it never gets used.

Your not saying our only form of defence is the military and that this 24 billion expense is necasary?

Way over simplified analogy, there are too many facets like our diplomacy, foriegn aid etc that contribute greatly to our defense that I would call "insurance" before 24 billion spent on jets.

 

[BPC]

Perhaps. Do you have fire insurance? Only way to test it is to . obvious. But you still have it.

How about reading the policy wording? As analogies go, that one is as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd love to hear Runner's opinion on why the proposed deficit levy is neither a new tax, a broken promise nor a surprise.

 

[Runner]

Your not saying our only form of defence is the military and that this 24 billion expense is necasary?

Way over simplified analogy, there are too many facets like our diplomacy, foriegn aid etc that contribute greatly to our defense that I would call "insurance" before 24 billion spent on jets.

Sure, but in the last resort you only have the military. Ask the Ukrainians. In the end all the diplomacy in the world would stop Puttin. The thought of a bloody nose might.

 

[Runner]

How about reading the policy wording? As analogies go, that one is as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

On the surface they may have one.

 

[Runner]

I'd love to hear Runner's opinion on why the proposed deficit levy is neither a new tax, a broken promise nor a surprise.

If you or others have a copy of the budget or are part of cabinet have seen it then eveything up to the actual is just pure fiction or fantasy.

If it was to pass it's a broken promise.

 

[Braveheart81]

If you or others have a copy of the budget or are part of cabinet have seen it then eveything up to the actual is just pure fiction or fantasy.

If it was to pass it's a broken promise.

Oh come on, of course it is going to happen. They're copping so much political flack from it they would have completely hosed down the rumours if it wasn't going to be announced.

Ahh... so when it is announced, it is only a broken promise once they get it legislated.

So by your logic is their failure to repeal the carbon tax and the mining tax a broken promise because despite announcing that as their policy, they haven't passed it.

 

[boyo]

Deficit tax tears at Tony Abbott's credibility
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-tony-abbotts-credibility-20140429-zr1as.html

"You are apparently ignoring independent international reports from the IMF and the OECD on our economy throughout the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments. We were the envy of the industralised economies with one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios. The 'budget emergency' was a slogan created by the LNP leading up to the election - there seems to be no budget emergency after the election with Sloppy Joe paying billions to the RBA when the money isn't needed by the RBA. According to one of the IMF reports the Howard government was the most wasteful compared to even the Whitlam government. They are facts. Note the IMF is not headed by a lefty but a former economic minister of the right-wing Sarkozy government."

Commenter
Aaron
Location
Date and time
April 30, 2014, 8:09AM

 

[boyo]

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Surgeons, finance dealers, mining engineers hardest hit in new tax

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/surgeons-finance-dealers-mining-engineers-hardest-hit-in-new-tax-20140429-zr1el.html#ixzz30Kq0WonD

 

[boyo]

Deficit levy would wipe out a decade of tax cuts

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/federal-budget/deficit-levy-would-wipe-out-a-decade-of-tax-cuts-20140430-37gzh.html#ixzz30KzqnDPa

 

[Runner]

Oh come on, of course it is going to happen. They're copping so much political flack from it they would have completely hosed down the rumours if it wasn't going to be announced.

Ahh. so when it is announced, it is only a broken promise once they get it legislated.

So by your logic is their failure to repeal the carbon tax and the mining tax a broken promise because despite announcing that as their policy, they haven't passed it.

Announced by whom outside the media and other bloggers. When it becomes a law via legislation or is submitted in the budget it is only rumour flamed by the opposition.

The others are not broken yet as parliament still has some time to run. They may get through the new senate. If not then in year 3 as I have said before it will provide Abbott not only with a double dissolution trigger but a means to bash Bill or his successor with the argument that ALP is still out of touch and doesn't give a rats about the outcome of the last election or the people's will.

 

[boyo]

Announced by whom outside the media and other bloggers. When it becomes a law via legislation or is submitted in the budget it is only rumour flamed by the opposition.

The others are not broken yet as parliament still has some time to run. They may get through the new senate. If not then in year 3 as I have said before it will provide Abbott not only with a double dissolution trigger but a means to bash Bill or his successor with the argument that ALP is still out of touch and doesn't give a rats about the outcome of the last election or the people's will.

Give it time