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Global Rapid Rugby

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by ForceFan, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. zer0 Alan Cameron (40)

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    A M10 'all stars' team without any SR or Sevens players is basically a squad of teenagers and maybe club journeymen, not a Borg cube. Fully professional teams such as the Force, or those from Japan, really should be beating that sort of composite side more often than not.
    waiopehu oldboy likes this.
  2. WorkingClassRugger Andrew Slack (58)

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    WSR will sign a marquee player for each side but considering there won't be a salary cap there's nothing stopping the respective teams from doing their own recruitment.
  3. WorkingClassRugger Andrew Slack (58)

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    This is part of the reason why I want the Force and Drua to remain in the NRC and be joined by the Western Sydney team. Because that's where I see the future with the ability to build the rivalries at a professional level.
  4. WorkingClassRugger Andrew Slack (58)

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    No. The NRL and AFL are where they are now because they saw opportunity and had the leadership and vision to get it done. They made the hard decisions to make the necessary moves, cut the chaff where needed and build successful competitions. We on the other hand are still mired in self interest and backwards thinking.
    Rugbynutter39 likes this.
  5. Rugbynutter39 Geoff Shaw (53)

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    AFL with its success shows what astute management and marketing does for a sport as don’t forget that 20 years ago where they were and where they are now without a quality international popular product to work with. The fact rugby has such a strong international product to work with but gone backwards shows what a weak administration and lack of strategic and commercial capabilities, coupled with a fractured and divserse political landscape that has inhibited a strong focused national and commercial approach cf that offered by afl.

    Twiggy stirring the pot imo to get polictics more aligned which imho recent support by SRU, NSWRU and RA showed. Long way to go but more positive on potential for positive change for oz rugby then have been for a long time.
  6. chibimatty Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    Well let's hope that's the case. But honestly, why would New Zealand field a team like that? This is a chance to give Auckland a new winning team, or to give Tauranga, Napier-Hastings, Palmerston North or one of the other larger New Zealand centres a chance to have a successful pro-franchise. Does anyone really think they would waste resources of a sixth professional franchise, on a weak side like that? I can't see them putting journeymen or teenagers ahead of quality players who are warming the bench or in the reserves/EPS who just missed out on first-team Super Rugby or Premiership rugby; those guys would have a fit.

    Also remember, as professional as they are, the Force squad is a hastily arranged team that was only starting to be thrown together in February. While also, the Japanese sides have tremendous restrictions on foreign signings and must be majority homegrown Japanese. These are not world-beating teams.


    Spot on!

    Nick Marvin managed to do an excellent job this year, we weren't dependent on the Crusaders for our biggest crowd, and our attendances grew for our last two games after the lull in the middle. We arguably haven't had marketing like that since the Force's inaugural season; possibly ever.

    One needs to note, rugby had been so far off the radar in WA for so long, that many mainstream people over here thought this was a first-time one-off "test" match; they were of the opinion that "wow! rugby's coming to town!" The game against Fiji sold out INSTANTLY. It was the hottest ticket in town, the media was in a frenzy and everybody wanted to go; it would have been very interesting to see what the hypothetical crowd figure for that game would have been had they moved it to Optus Stadium.
    Rugbynutter39, todd4 and ForceFan like this.
  7. ForceFan Arch Winning (36)

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    It seems to me that many people are trying to make World Series Rugby something that it was never meant to be.

    The initial aim was to grow the great game of rugby in the Indo-Pacific region in a way that was never tried before.
    There's been no indication that WSR has moved away from this position.
    Maybe it wasn't a case of Minderoo moving into Western Sydney but Minderoo being approached by organisations/individuals interested in getting Rugby Union seriously established in Sydney's West. Let's face it, Rugby Australia has effectively turned its back on the area.

    For WA the exciting aspect is that Australia's team - the Western Force - in this competition would be based in Perth.

    Go back to the early announcements:
    1. Minderoo would provide the $$s maybe 2 marque players per team. Maybe start-up teams will get 3 and established location will get none. Only time will tell.
    2. Matt Hodgson has evidently been talking to International rugby players who are at least at SR and maybe Test standard. Some of these are possibly Aussies playing abroad. The aim was to get them closer to home - and hopefully eligible for Wallaby selection. That has to be a good thing! (and at zero cost to RA)
    3. Each team could recruit as many of these players as they needed to boost their local talent.
    4. With the kick-off in a RWC year it's possible that serious recruitment may happen after the RWC. Can't imagine that many will move before the RWC.
    5. There would be no salary cap which means that there is good chance of private/corporate ownership - as already is the case in Japan - and with the Western Force.
    6. Minderoo is already committed to growing the game in Perth with each player being linked and involved with Perth rugby clubs and in the RugbyRoos program. Minderoo is sponsoring the Future Force Foundation (WA's own academy. Again at zero cost to RA) Perhaps this gives a hint of what will be happening in the region??
    There are no further changes to Super Rugby until after 2020. So talk of grabbing the 5th team in NZ is pointless.
    It's seems very likely that there will be no SR after 2020 as the attraction of the concept appears to be waining and hence FoxTel sponsorship is likely to be significantly reduced.
    The Saffas seem to have growing interest in Europe/UK.

    I see great advantages in having a NZ in the competition as a pre-cursor to what happens after 2020.
    In the short term it would have to draw players from ITM teams and from players who have already moved OS.
    But what a great way to get all of NZ on board and behind the concept of WSR.

    We in Perth can't wait to start hearing the announcements and starting our travel planning for next year.
  8. ForceFan Arch Winning (36)

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    It's noteworthy that this is all that Minderoo/Western Force had to say on Sat, 29 September.

    Asian rugby expansion a step closer
    September 29, 2018

    The global rugby governing body has considered detailed expansion plans for Andrew Forrest’s new Asian pro-rugby series competition in 2019 and beyond.

    The proposal for a full-scale, elite Asia Pacific competition was considered by World Rugby’s Executive Committee on Wednesday. The Executive Committee recommended the concept for approval to the World Rugby Council, subject to finalisation of regulatory and governance criteria.

    “This concept is about developing and growing the great game of rugby union in an untapped region, with the support of local communities,” founder Andrew Forrest AO said.
    “We have worked closely with World Rugby, Rugby Australia, Hong Kong Rugby Union and New Zealand Rugby for several months to get this over the line.

    “The support provided by the World Rugby Executive Committee is an important milestone and I would particularly like to thank World Rugby CEO Brett Gosper, Rugby Australia CEO Raelene Castle and the many other rugby leaders around the world that have had the vision and foresight to champion this competition.
    “The Asia Pacific will be a major player in rugby’s future. I am looking forward to being able to help develop the game in the region."

    “We are in the final stretch and I remain confident rugby fans and players in our part of the world will have an innovative new competition to get behind in 2019.”

    Rugby Australia Chief Executive, Raelene Castle said: “We have worked very closely with Andrew and his team as he has developed plans for an Asia Pacific focussed competition. There is a lot of detail to work through and we are looking forward to continuing this positive dialogue over the coming months.”

    https://www.westernforce.com.au/asian-rugby-expansion-a-step-closer/
  9. wamberal David Codey (61)

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    The AFL led the way. They acted purely in their own self-interest, and built on existing strengths. Yes, they made some hard decisions. But the game was already comparatively very popular in the other states, when the decision was made and executed to go national. Building on existing popularity is a bit different to trying to build on existing lack of popularity.


    As for the NRL, you must be joking. Rugby League went through a hugely damaging war between two immensely powerful media barons.


    What came out after the fighting was over ended up as the ARL/NRL. And if you have a close look you will find lots of internal squabbling. Not to mention a lot of flexibility when it comes to the governance of the game. Billy Slater's shoulder charge is the latest example. I suppose that is a strength. Is that what we should emulate, if we could?


    Both codes are of course designed specifically for Australian preferences. Both occasionally try to embrace some sort of international dimension, but self-interest and/or a lack of willingness to make hard decisions means that they get virtually nowhere.
  10. Rugbynutter39 Geoff Shaw (53)

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    One cannot discount why has twiggy looked at western Sydney as another wsr team. As firstly gives domestic rivalry for the Force which we know adds appeal and second oz market still a big market and gives more incentive for wider oz interest in wsr. As lot of us on here prior to announcement of western Sydney side as possible wsr side we’re commenting not having at least 2 oz sides may make the competition struggle to get traction in terms of oz interest. The addition of western Sydney side is potential master stroke imo as solves not only wsr problem but oz rugby problem of how to exploit the huge talent pool in western Sydney that has been badly neglected.

    The photo of tew, castle and twiggy is priceless as for me it shows the big three power brokers of Oceania and twiggy to my mind is certainly an equal which i think world rugby clearly knows as does tew and castle. I think this is a good thing both tew and castle can leverage as twiggy can be more agile and innovative and less beholden to domestic politics both castle and tew subject too.
  11. hoggy Johnnie Wallace (23)

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    Well at least something is happening, and good on Twiggy, because quite frankly with a continuation of the current set up after 2020, and I would genuinely fear for the future of the game here as a major code, and maybe I'm jumping ahead but surely its 2021 that is the real crossroads.

    Can both competitions survive, is not WSR rugby just another version of Super rugby. Yes they have world rugby's approval, but does that mean anything. Does RA have a plan come 2021, Is the Super rugby brand simply to damaged to continue.

    What are the scenarios come 2021, how can you have one comp without a salary cap and one with in the same market. Does Super rugby add a pacific team if WSR already has one.

    What happens if SA move to Europe, can the NRC continue, is there genuinely enough interest in Asia, could there already be planning post 2021, are the RA even capable of planning something to move the game forward.

    And most importantly, if private money is introduced, then the cats out of the bag( I'll pay for Izzy, but not with a bunch of strings attached).

    And the big one, how long can a competition like this survive and RA still maintain Test rugby as its primacy.
    The_Brown_Hornet and ForceFan like this.
  12. ForceFan Arch Winning (36)

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    With the invitational 2018 season WSR has shown that it's certainly not just another version of Super Rugby.
    Every effort is being made to make WSR a match-day event, to present entertaining rugby and bring families back onto the scene.
    WSR will be professionally run without the fickle, vested interests and dictates of SANZAAR.

    WSR is reaching out into areas where World Rugby already had dreams for growth but no $$s to make it happen.
    The initial comp is trying to keep fairly tight time zones to reach a particular audience.

    The initial steps may have little appeal to OZ outside of WA but that wasn't the aim - it's growth into the growing Asian market and trying to get something going for the Pacific teams who have so often been placed in the too hard basket. And to maintain a development pathway to professional rugby for WA rugby players.

    I'll be interested to see what further rule changes are rolled out to make the game more entertaining with more ball-in-play time. Clearly the SR offering has little appeal as crowd numbers and viewing audiences are showing.

    2019 will be just the inaugural season with 2 Japanese teams due to no local competition because of the RWC.
    Expect progressive changes as other teams in the region are developed.

    Totally agree with your comment of "good on Twiggy" as without this initiative rugby would be dying in the West. His initial commitment is still $150 Million over 3 years. Nowhere else in our region is this level of support being put into the great game.
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  13. zer0 Alan Cameron (40)

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    I think you're overestimating how important this side will be in the NZ rugby hierarchy. This WSR side will most certainly be subservient to the SR franchises. The franchises are crucial to the All Blacks programme -- NZR's big money earner -- via matches against high quality opposition containing some of the best players on the planet. This WSR team, on the other hand, will be playing the Hong Kong Expats Friday-night-piss-up-survivors XV. Playing resources and salaries will be allocated accordingly. Hence why, in essence, I imagine the NZ WSR team will be a continuation of the U20's programme come national SR development squad.

    NZR has also taken back full control of the Blues and installed their own directors to oversee them. They're not going to do all that and then set up a serious rival team in the city.
  14. kiap Mark Ella (57)

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    That's a tad harsh, zero.
  15. zer0 Alan Cameron (40)

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    A bit hyperbolic, sure. But the point is it's hardly going to be the crème de la crème of world rugby talent in its first year(s), as has been widely acknowledged in these threads. Hence why I don't see NZR rolling out the big, or even moderate, name players. It'll be guys like Ben Nee-Nee, Matiaha Martin, Antonio Kiri Kiri and whoever the hell else it was making up 90% of the Blues pack by the end of this SR season.
  16. hoggy Johnnie Wallace (23)

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    It all depends on the money. NZR control the market in NZ, but that could change the minute some Millionaire decides that without a salary cap, I may just sign up a couple of All Blacks to play in my Friday night piss-up team.
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  17. kiap Mark Ella (57)

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    It won't be instant Supe level for WSR, that's true. But it should be a few rungs above piss-up pub teams … I reckon at least on par, player-wise, with rugby in Japan.

    That's IF the competition goes ahead, of course. While it did get closer as of Friday, it's not a certainty yet.

    Neither is an NZ team within the comp.

    For my own view, like several posters above, I'd have no problem if they were not involved. Players from NZ would absolutely be welcome, of course - but there's no requirement to play there.
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  18. zer0 Alan Cameron (40)

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    How would that be any different to what France currently do?
  19. WorkingClassRugger Andrew Slack (58)

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    Just because the AFL's transition was smoother doesn't change the fact that RL still did the same and has largely succeeded in doing so while we still bicker over trivial BS. They did what was necessary. We apparently cannot to the point that the game suffers for the sake of ego's being fed. Simple.
  20. chibimatty Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    Yeah, that's where my concern is. If the competition has some success, what happens if it's not just Twiggy in there? What if it's, for example, Jack Ma, the Holmes à Courts, Kerry Stokes, Packer, et al; all joining the party? Then things change. A sixth professional team on the international stage (with exposure through the highest-populated area in the world) then becomes pretty important pretty quickly. This could open the way to what may be rugby's future down here. Billionaire bankrolled teams, with the national unions only worrying about funding development. I can't see the New Zealand team not winning it in at least the second year, if not the first. If they don't win the first season, I can't see them not giving in to the money and bolstering the team to win the next few seasons in a canter.


    Yep, that's a fair call; though TBH the mention of Auckland was really a sidebar, I think the team would probably play somewhere else that doesn't have a Super franchise. But I would be surprised if they didn't use North Harbour Stadium on occasion for this team.

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