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Ireland v Australia, Dublin, 16 Nov 2013

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emuarse

emuarse

Desmond Connor (43)
S'UP said:
When will Genia just run away from any kick, everytime he is near a kick it all goes to shit, either he drops it, it bounces or he gets in someones way. Don't start me on the kicks that come from his own foot.
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That's a load of crap and you know it.
There have been numerous times when he has reliably got back into a position to safely take the kick after calling, even though facing a charge down from All Black or Springbok bullies.
And he knows what to do with it in disposal as well.
He and Izzy just need to get their calls sorted out, with obviously the fullback having priority. Before Izzy came along, and while he was learning his role, the fullback often was not in position.
 
Ash

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
It was only two or so years ago when Genia was considered by many to be the best, or very close to it, in the Wallabies under the high ball.

Genia was good under the high ball, but it says a bit about the rest of the players too.
 
Ash

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Hawko said:
Poor bastards.

Linking to stories in the Australian is a problem for me. All I get is the "buy a subscription now" overlay and it'll be a cold day in hell before Rupert gets any of my hard-earned cash.
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Simple copy the headline, then paste it into google. Generally, click the first link that shows up (with the tag "news blog" or something).
 
Bruce Ross

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
Hawko said:
Poor bastards.

Linking to stories in the Australian is a problem for me. All I get is the "buy a subscription now" overlay and it'll be a cold day in hell before Rupert gets any of my hard-earned cash.
Click to expand...

Let the deranged old bastard go on counting his money. Pay wall or no pay wall is a matter of indifference to me. He has polluted journalism and tried to subvert the democratic process in at least three continents.
.
 
BPC

BPC

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Ash said:
It was only two or so years ago when Genia was considered by many to be the best, or very close to it, in the Wallabies under the high ball.
Click to expand...

I think the problems in the last year or so with Genia and the high ball has been lack of communication rather than ability.
 
S'UP

S'UP

Bill Watson (15)
emuarse said:
That's a load of crap and you know it.
There have been numerous times when he has reliably got back into a position to safely take the kick after calling, even though facing a charge down from All Black or Springbok bullies.
And he knows what to do with it in disposal as well.
He and Izzy just need to get their calls sorted out, with obviously the fullback having priority. Before Izzy came along, and while he was learning his role, the fullback often was not in position.
Click to expand...
Spoken like a true Queenslander :) I think there are a few on this thread that agree that currently he does have a few issues under the high ball, I don't know if it is confidence or lack off it (after the Lions game, remenber that little one) or just poor communication but he has certainly dropped few in recent times. Again as others have already stated it doesn't say much for the other guys in the team, our kick reception overall is poor and has been for a number of years.
 
Lindommer

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
The win against Ireland was nice, but the best I can say about it was that it was very encouraging. We'll have to keep on improving to beat the boyos in a fortnight.

My impressions:

  • Ireland looked severely underdone and their stars didn't shine. They've had a goodish front row the past few years, their second rows've been very good to excellent and a back row including O'Brien and Heaslip SHOULD make life misery for any opponent. In the backs their halves Reddan and Sexton have plenty of green and BIL experience and further out, BOD, Bowe and Kearney are among the best Ireland's put out in the last two decades. Is Ireland going through a rebuilding phase? They certainly didn't play like most Irish teams of the last few years.
  • The improvement in our scrum has to be the first point I make about the Wallabies, and it has to be applauded. I feel for Ben Alexander but I think he's been part of the problem this year. Added to new personnel the strange tactic of the backrow staying bound and pushing floored me. Who'd a thought that'd work? Mowen's meerkatting the past two tests should've been noted by selectors, and a mark made next to his name. Mind you, the various breakaways weren't much better. Let's not get carried away here, far too many scrums still went down and we did give away a few scrum penalties. On another note: I've been watching rugby for, about, 50 years, and, although I was a back mostly ignorant of the dark arts of the front row, I still can't confidently put Slipper and Alexander on their best side; Slipper says he wants to play THP while Alexander packs down at 1 for the Brumbies. Similar to Deans a few years ago playing Kepu at LHP and Alexander at THP at the same time they were playing on the other side for their Super sides. Is this all a conspiracy by the front rowers' club? Suggestion: how 'bout giving Alexander a run at one and Slipper at THP in a test (but only for 10/15 minutes) to see how they go? Ben should seriously consider his front row future as his ranking at THP's tumbled a bit this tour.

    Added to this propping conundrum the Wallabies seem to have this hesitancy to get stuck into scrummaging, they're invariably second to form up and have far too many standups and resets. AND Wallaby scrums go down far, far too often. I would've liked to've see our scrum grab the Paddy pigs by the scruff of the neck last week and keep them up while mullering them. Surely one of the scrum brains trust (is that an oxymoron?:rolleyes:) noted the inability to stay up/weakness of the Italian LHP last week and tutored our #3s how to keep his opponent up while driving his neck through his clacker.

    But, overall, the improvement in the Wallabies' scrum was delightful to watch. More please.
  • One area we haven't made similar improvements is competing at the breakdown. There've been some instances, one against Argentina, another against England and a third I can recall last Saturday when we made a numerically superior tackle to an isolated ball carrier and didn't force a turnover. The Pommy one was particularly galling as two of the defenders immediately bounced back to form a close defensive line while the tackled player placed the ball in the path of an approaching support player who rucked our tackler off the ball. Did we win one counter-ruck in these three matches? What is it about Australian rugby players who withdraw from the tackle/breakdown to form a defensive line next to it? Have our players been subconsciously indoctrinated by rugby league with its constant up-and-back 10 metre dance? Is that what Kuridrani was doing against England when he dropped the turnover ball Cooper passed to him leading to the Poms second try? This reluctance to perform hard cleaning-out certainly showed when O'Brien was loitering on our side of a stationary maul and no one belted him out of there. Result: collapsed maul, Irish put-in. All gold players within five metres of the maul on that occasion deserve to have their match fees docked. Until we learn to be ruthless cleaning out at the breakdown, ours or our opponents', we'll continue to struggle against the ABs.
    NB. Apologies for not noting the times of the instances I referred to here.
  • Link must be applauded for mentoring and guiding Cooper back to what we know he can do. And Quade must be applauded for turning his life around and growing up these last few years. We've all been calling for quick, wide ball after advancing forward and now we can see how bloody good it looks and works. Well done, Ewen and Quade.
  • The selectors should also be complimented for To'omua's runs at inside centre, what a revelation he's been. To my eye he looks better at Wallaby 12 than Brumby 10. Cooper and To'omua seem to complement each other very well with whomever's available running the attack when the other's at the bottom of a ruck. Now if only one of them could kick off his left foot.....
  • Cummins' progress on the wing's been one of the highlights of this tour. I've never understood the brickbats his detractors've thrown at him, he's a hard-running winger, that's what good wingers should be. And now we know he can swerve if necessary.
  • Folau's progress has stepped up this tour. Izzy's high ball catching confidence has undoubtedly lifted the backs (and, I dare say, the whole squad) and must make opponents think twice about kicking to him. He's starting to kick out of his 22, something which he didn't do earlier this year for the Tahs and his running improves every match. One thing to work on for Folau is his passing in contact. My son pointed out the reluctance of league players to pass the pill in traffic, they play 100% safety first when they've got the ball even when there's a perfect opportunity for an offload. 'Spose this is what makes SBW so spectacularly successful, his propensity and ability to get a pass away while being tackled. Folau seems to pass the ball as an absolute last choice as he's hitting the ground, and seems to bugger quite a few up. But on another, positive, note, Izzy now looks comfortable (if that's possible) at the bottom of rucks. This is one thing league converts have often struggled with, the pile of bodies on top of them.
  • A worrying feature of the this season's test program is the overall poor form of both Horwill and Genia, are they tired or are they carrying injuries? Someone noted earlier on Horwill looked good on a replay of the match. Not to my eye, a player of his stature and calibre should be absolutely dominating rucks and mauls. I watched Will particularly closely this match and the 2013 Will performed as usual: a good start, then a wind-up or step before passing then deteriorating into Gregan-style egg-hatching service in the second half. Even the commentators were noting his slow service at one point. When White came on the slow speed of Genia's service was cruelly contrasted. By any judgement his kicking is crap. I dunno what's wrong here with these two but something is.
  • Delighted to see Simmons start to realise his potential. In the past I've considered him a good lineout technician, and not much else. ATM he's probably be Australia's best lock. Mind you, with that big lug Timani heading to frogland we desperately need a few tallies to stand up. Let's hope Carter and Douglas continue to improve next year.
  • Our kick and chase and kicking in general still need some work. Some, including me, have called for our coaches to ask for some AFL help improving our kicking, I just don't understand why rugby hasn't made more use of AFL expertise here. Former AFL players Mick Byrne and Ben Perkins have done extensive kicking coaching for rugby teams overseas, why not in Oz?
  • The referee: HTF can a Kiwi ref card Hooper for lying on the wrong side of the ruck WHILE PLAYING THE BALL when the same whistlers blithely watch St Richie the Invisible do exactly the same thing week in week out? Words defy me how he's got away with this practice all these years.
 
Brumby Runner

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Lindommer said:
The win against Ireland was nice, but the best I can say about it was that it was very encouraging. We'll have to keep on improving to beat the boyos in a fortnight.

My impressions:

  • Ireland looked severely underdone and their stars didn't shine. They've had a goodish front row the past few years, their second rows've been very good to excellent and a back row including O'Brien and Heaslip SHOULD make life misery for any opponent. In the backs their halves Reddan and Sexton have plenty of green and BIL experience and further out, BOD, Bowe and Kearney are among the best Ireland's put out in the last two decades. Is Ireland going through a rebuilding phase? They certainly didn't play like most Irish teams of the last few years.
  • The improvement in our scrum has to be the first point I make about the Wallabies, and it has to be applauded. I feel for Ben Alexander but I think he's been part of the problem this year. Added to new personnel the strange tactic of the backrow staying bound and pushing floored me. Who'd a thought that'd work? Mowen's meerkatting the past two tests should've been noted by selectors, and a mark made next to his name. Mind you, the various breakaways weren't much better. Let's not get carried away here, far too many scrums still went down and we did give away a few scrum penalties. On another note: I've been watching rugby for, about, 50 years, and, although I was a back mostly ignorant of the dark arts of the front row, I still can't confidently put Slipper and Alexander on their best side; Slipper says he want to play THP while Alexander packs down at 1 for the Brumbies. Similar to Deans a few years ago playing Kepu at LHP and Alexander at THP at the same time they were playing on the other side for their Super sides. Is this all a conspiracy by the front rowers' club? Suggestion: how 'bout giving Alexander a run at one and Slipper at THP in a test (but only for 10/15 minutes) to see how they go? Ben should seriously consider his front row future as his ranking at THP's tumbled a bit this tour.

    Added to this propping conundrum the Wallabies seem to have this hesitancy to get stuck into scrummaging, they're invariably second to form up and have far too many standups and resets. AND Wallaby scrums go down far, far too often. I would've liked to've see our scrum grab the Paddy pigs by the scruff of the neck last week and keep them up while mullering them. Surely one of the scrum brains trust (is that an oxymoron?:rolleyes:) noted the inability to stay up/weakness of the Italian LHP last week and tutored our #3s how to keep his opponent up while driving his neck through his clacker.

    But, overall, the improvement in the Wallabies' scrum was delightful to watch. More please.
  • One area we haven't made similar improvements is competing at the breakdown. There've been some instances, one against Argentina, another against England and a third I can recall last Saturday when we made a numerically superior tackle to an isolated ball carrier and didn't force a turnover. The Pommy one was particularly galling as two of the defenders immediately bounced back to form a close defensive line while the tackled player placed the ball in the path of an approaching support player who rucked our tackler off the ball. Did we win one counter-ruck in these three matches? What is it about Australian rugby players who withdraw from the tackle/breakdown to form a defensive line next to it? Have our players been subconsciously indoctrinated by rugby league with its constant up-and-back 10 metre dance? Is that what Kuridrani was doing against England when he dropped the turnover ball Cooper passed to him leading to the Poms second try? This reluctance to perform hard cleaning-out certainly showed when O'Brien was loitering on our side of a collapsed maul and no one belted him out of there. Result: collapsed maul, Irish put-in. All gold players within five metres of the maul on that occasion deserve to have their match fees docked. Until we learn to be ruthless cleaning out at the breakdown, ours or our opponents', we'll continue to struggle against the ABs.
    NB. Apologies for not noting the times of the instances I referred to here.
  • Link must be applauded for mentoring and guiding Cooper back to what we know he can do. And Quade must be applauded for turning his life around and growing up these last few years. We've all been calling for quick, wide ball after advancing forward and now we can see how bloody good it looks and works. Well done, Ewen and Quade.
  • The selectors should also be complimented for To'omua's runs at inside centre, what a revelation he's been. To my eye he looks better at Wallaby 12 than Brumby 10. Cooper and To'omua seem to complement each other very well with whomever's available running the attack when the other's at the bottom of a ruck. Now if only one of them could kick off his left foot...
  • Cummins' progress on the wing's been one of the highlights of this tour. I've never understood the brickbats his detractors've thrown at him, he's a hard-running winger, that's what good wingers should be. And now we know he can swerve if necessary.
  • Folau's progress has stepped up this tour. Izzy's high ball catching confidence has undoubtedly lifted the backs (and, I dare say, the whole squad) and must make opponents think twice about kicking to him. He's starting to kick out of his 22, something which he didn't do earlier this year for the Tahs and his running improves every match. One thing to work on for Folau is his passing in contact. My son pointed out the reluctance of league players to pass the pill in traffic, they play 100% safety first when they've got the ball even when there's a perfect opportunity for an offload. 'Spose this is what makes SBW so spectacularly successful, his propensity and ability to get a pass away while being tackled. Folau seems to pass the ball as an absolute last choice as he's hitting the ground, and seems to bugger quite a few up. But on another, positive, note, Izzy now looks comfortable (if that's possible) at the bottom of rucks. This is one thing league converts have often struggled with, the pile of bodies on top of them.
  • A worrying feature of the this season's test program is the overall poor form of both Horwill and Genia, are they tired or are they carrying injuries? Someone noted earlier on Horwill looked good on a replay of the match. Not to my eye, a player of his stature and calibre should be absolutely dominating rucks and mauls. I watched Will particularly closely this match and the 2013 Will performed as usual: a good start, then a wind-up or step before passing before deteriorating into Gregan-style egg-hatching service in the second half. Even the commentators were noting his slow service at one point. When White came on the slow speed of Genia's service was cruelly contrasted. By any judgement his kicking is crap. I dunno what's wrong here with these two but something is.
  • Delighted to see Simmons start to realise his potential. In the past I've considered him a good lineout technician, and not much else. ATM he'd probably be Australia's best lock. Mind you, with that big lug Timani heading to frogland we desparately need a few tallies to stand up. Let's hope Carter and Douglas continue to improve next year.
  • Our kick and chase and kicking in general still need some work. Some, including me, have called for our coaches to ask for some AFL help improving our kicking, I just don't understand why rugby hasn't made more use of AFL expertise here. Former AFL players Mick Byrne and Ben Perkins have done extensive kicking coaching for rugby teams overseas, why not in Oz?
  • The referee: HTF can a Kiwi ref card Hooper for lying on the wrong side of the ruck WHILE PLAYING THE BALL when the same whistlers blithely watch St Richie the Invisible do exactly the same thing week in week out? Words defy me how he's got away with this practice all these years.
Click to expand...

Think we'll see against Scotland, Ben Alexander covering LH on the bench. Only four props available and two, Kepu and Ryan, are THs.

Think you'll find it was Heaslip, not O'Brien, standing on our side of the collapsed maul. But, in any case, he should have been wiped out, but wasn't.

Great post.
 
Penguin

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
S'UP said:
Spoken like a true Queenslander :) I think there are a few on this thread that agree that currently he does have a few issues under the high ball, I don't know if it is confidence or lack off it (after the Lions game, remenber that little one) or just poor communication but he has certainly dropped few in recent times. Again as others have already stated it doesn't say much for the other guys in the team, our kick reception overall is poor and has been for a number of years.
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The Lions debacle was all Douglas's fault & you know it. A lock should be taking any restart over the halfback. Stop sounding like a typical NSWelshman ;-)
Genia has been one of our best defusers of bombs in recent times & that is a fact!
 
Lindommer

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
No, Penguin, I was down that end for the kickoff of the last BIL test and it wasn't "all Douglas's fault". He's (obviously) taller and all things being equal should take kickoffs over a halfback, but Genia was behind him and moving forward.

They were both to blame. I gather from earlier reports there was some confusion over the call for this ball. Put your red-tinted glasses away.
 
Penguin

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
Nothing to do with the tint of my glasses Lindomer. The bigger man should always take the kick off over the smaller man, if he is in position to do so. Douglas was in that position & Genia obviously expected him to take it & was left with a last second decision to make & we all know how that turned out.

For what it's worth I rate Douglas as a player & expect good things from him in the coming years. But that was a major mistake & I'm sure he won't make it again.
 
Lee Grant

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Some belated thoughts of the game, in no particular order:

• That was one of the best displays from the Wallabies for some time. Sure they wobbled in the second quarter, their discipline was sketchy, and their opponents had a bad day on the park, but they are due some praise now in one of their worst years ever.

• Ireland were mediocre and showed that they had thinner depth than the Wallabies had. And I didn't expect the Aussie backrow to outplay the Irishmen, but they did. Flanker Stephen Ferris was sadly missed by them.

Losing Sexton after oranges made a difference in the backs: more than you would reckon had the Wallabies lost Cooper, with Leali'fano and To'omua available to slot in. Other Ireland replacements did not compare well to the Aussie reserves either.

12. Luke Marshall is new to international rugby this year; he was having a poor game, especially defensively, but he's a better player than that, and it was good to see him making a couple of good moves late in the match. The defenders were a man short, but Ireland would have scored if someone had been backing up when he was in the clear after that late lineout.

• It wasn't just a lot of quick Aussie ball, cleared quickly, that had the Irish on their heels on defence: they lacked confidence in their defending partners and had a wait-and-see attitude anyway. If they don't improve in these matters the All Blacks will annihilate them come Saturday with all their reserves starting.

• There were two things in the game that really surprised me: 15. Rob Kearney dropping an easy high ball (a rarity) and an Aussie seven-man scrum bossing the Ireland eight after Kuridrani got his red card.

The Aussie scrum domination was disguised by a few early shoves from them; had they not done so their scrum ledger would have had many more credits and their margin would have been clearer. By the end of the game their "set" timing was brilliant even though the players were changed.

In the last few years the Ireland scrum had been decent with THP Mike Ross being one of the team's most valuable players, and LHP Cian Healy, once only handy in the loose, becoming a genuine scrummager. And there were other good looseheads behind him: Dave Kilcoyne of Munster and Jack McGrath of Leinster.

But Sepoke Kepu, playing his best test match, and Paddy Ryan later, had no problem against either of the looseheads. Nor were James Slipper and Benn Robinson troubled by the Ireland tightheads Ross and Archer. It confirmed that the Ireland tighthead situation is in extremis.

Jack McGrath, man of the match for Ireland against Samoa the previous week, who replaced LHP Healey when he was injured, must have been surprised when Ryan replaced Kepu at THP. He might have been looking forward to an easier time, but he got shoved back with TH lock Sitaleki Timani pushing Paddy forward, and he no mug to start with.

• You couldn't quibble about Hooper being nominated as the man of the match but Cooper and Moore had commanding games. Some people had pegged Cooper as being just a Super Rugby player, but at last he is bringing his style of game to the international level and being influential with it.

Getting a good ration of quick ball has done him no harm in the last couple of weeks.

Moore is in world-class form at the moment; whatever that means.

• The Kuridrani red card was condign punishment. You can carp that the laws don't actually prescribe that sanction for what he did, but it is a red card every day of the week under the protocols that referees follow.

• That would have to have been one of the cleanest maul tries of the year. It looked like a scrum, ball up, and weren't the Ireland spoilers disposed of nicely?

• One could quibble about Ireland being allowed back in the game before the break, takeable restarts being lost, loose ball carries, some players (Kuridrani and Kepu) coming out of the line on defence, bonehead infractions (and Fardy should have been carded for his knockdown) but some of the Aussie ball work is getting back to the good old days when Oz rugby was in it's pomp.

Well done boys.
.
 
terry j

terry j

Ron Walden (29)
Lee Grant said:
Some belated thoughts of the game, in no particular order:


• The Kuridrani red card was condign punishment. You can carp that the laws don't actually prescribe that sanction for what he did, but it is a red card every day of the week under the protocols that referees follow.
Click to expand...

Cheers Lee! Wow, a completely new word for me.

Can see myself dropping into many a conversation from here on out haha.
 
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