Long Term Combinations

[Brumby Runner]

Stating the obvious, but front row combination is one of our biggest problem areas. Of the props on the current tour, I think only Benn R will stay long term. Maybe Slipper as well but he will need to stay on one side of the scrum at all levels. The future, looking towards the 2015 RWC, will contain Sio and probably Toby Smith and Salesi Manu. We still look a bit light on at TH, so if Dan Palmer returns fit and well, he will also be there. The EOYT should have been taken as an opportunity to work some of these players into the squad with an eye to the future. but wasn't. So next year from the get go, the test squad should start blooding the likes of Sio, Smith and Manu at the expense of Alexander, Kepu and Ryan. Any later will be too late.

Hooker doesn't look so bad. Moore needs a rest now, but will return next year as good as ever. TPN is a great alternative if he stays injury-free, and Saia has shown a lot of improvement lately. The one in the wings with potential to make test level is Siliva Siliva. Plenty of depth barring injuries.

 

[Braveheart81]

The biggest thing the Wallabies need is more players playing consistently close to what you'd call a good game each week. If you're looking at the GAGR rating scale, that would be a 7 or 8.

Combinations will form and begin to pay dividends when both those players are playing consistently well. Let's say you're looking at the centres, if the 12 is playing poorly, it's going to make it difficult for the 13 to have a good game. Continuing to stick with that combination in the hope that it will improve is silly. Whilst a player in form will make the players around them better, the opposite applies for a player out of form.

The odd bad game can be excused. What McKenzie needs to do is identify the players that are consistently underperforming and replace them.

 

[Ruggo]

Why do you think he should continue picking out of form players?
Combinations are good,picking in form players is better.

Form players are a bit hard to find at the moment. We won't know who form players are until we get into next years Super Rugby season. It kind of makes this thread a bit of a mute point unless you can read tea leafs or have a crystal ball. I think Link this year has just looked at continuity and next year will be in a better position to observe players on genuine form. Selecting between form and combination needs balance. Form I believe should be the first standard and truly select players on merit but combination also has an effect on form. I don't advocate it being an excuse to carry out of form players though.

 

[I like to watch]

Genia is a good example.
On form, he should be in a combination with me,on the lounge,in Sydney,taking turns doing beer runs.
What's the message to the squad,when players are woeful,yet continue to be selected?
It's about setting standards.you can't fudge that.

 

[Tordah]

And as good as Pocock is (or was?) he'd still be battling off Hooper for the starting 7.

If I was Wallabies coach, Pocock would always be the first name on my teamsheet. Hooper ist a decent player, but leagues behind Pocock.

 

[USARugger]

Genia is a good example.
On form, he should be in a combination with me,on the lounge,in Sydney,taking turns doing beer runs.
What's the message to the squad,when players are woeful,yet continue to be selected?
It's about setting standards.you can't fudge that.

We gave Nic his chance and he's been just as bad as Will bar the Argentina start.

Do we give Phipps or THE RANGA a start? Don't think that would end much better.

Or do we pull this mystical on-form scrumhalf from the ether?

 

[Braveheart81]

Genia is a good example.
On form, he should be in a combination with me,on the lounge,in Sydney,taking turns doing beer runs.
What's the message to the squad,when players are woeful,yet continue to be selected?
It's about setting standards.you can't fudge that.

Agreed. On paper Genia and Cooper is an obvious combination that provides benefits to each other's game.

Currently, Cooper is playing pretty well and Genia is playing abysmally. Having Genia in the team is doing Cooper no favours.

I would start Phipps this weekend. After the rubbish served up by Genia and White, I don't see why Phipps doesn't deserve a shot. His enthusiasm could be the shot in the arm the Wallabies need this weekend.

 

[I like to watch]

We gave Nic his chance and he's been just as bad as Will bar the Argentina start.

Do we give Phipps or THE RANGA a start? Don't think that would end much better.

Or do we pull this mystical on-form scrumhalf from the ether?

On that basis,once you have picked your first XV, they are there until injured or retired.
You think that's a long term winning philosophy?

 

[Braveheart81]

I think you've got to make players accountable for their performances and so far Link has done that pretty well (outside of the front row).

After the shambles served up against England, I feel that it would send a bad message to start anyone out of Genia, White, Slipper, Alexander and Timani. All of them were diabolical.

 

[USARugger]

On that basis,once you have picked your first XV, they are there until injured or retired.
You think that's a long term winning philosophy?

I'm saying that Genia has been continually starting because there really aren't any other current options, or at the least every other feasible option has been tried and hasn't worked much better either.

This is the reality of limited depth and short of plucking someone from the ether who literally does not exist right now there isn't an easy or quick fix.

I have absolutely no idea where you got the notion that I was thinking anywhere along those lines, to be honest.

I'd like to see Phipps given the start this weekend but he's been demonstrably awful in the past as well and has never shown much upside to his game so it's an equally shit proposition to starting Genia again. I'd like him to prove me wrong but there has been an awful lot of whining about Genia not clearing from the base or quickly enough in general, I can't help but laugh thinking back on Phipps doing exactly that for most of his Wallaby career.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Phipps has ever played as badly for the Wallabies as Genia and White did on the weekend against England.

Genia's test winning percentage is now down to 44.11%

 

[Pete King]

I think you've got to make players accountable for their performances and so far Link has done that pretty well (outside of the front row).

After the shambles served up against England, I feel that it would send a bad message to start anyone out of Genia, White, Slipper, Alexander and Timani. All of them were diabolical.

I throw Mowen into the category as well. Both his play and his captaincy.

On a brighter side in amoungst the rubble and shit we are producing is any1 else liking the 10 QC (Quade Cooper) 12 To'omua 13 KUDRAINI combination?

The only downside is that Lilo is a superior goal kicker.

 

[Pete King]

Long term Backrow I think involves at least 2 injured players.

6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Higgers

19 Hooper of the bench for the last 30.

 

[Dumbledore]

We gave Nic his chance and he's been just as bad as Will bar the Argentina start.

Do we give Phipps or THE RANGA a start? Don't think that would end much better.

Or do we pull this mystical on-form scrumhalf from the ether?

Him. Or Prior.

Phipps has somehow almost always been better for the Wallabies than he has been for the Rebels. I'd still be watching through my fingers if he started though.

 

[Brumby Runner]

We gave Nic his chance and he's been just as bad as Will bar the Argentina start.

Do we give Phipps or THE RANGA a start? Don't think that would end much better.

Or do we pull this mystical on-form scrumhalf from the ether?

I have to disagree. Nic is the next best No 9 and needs to be given more opportunities so that he can develop into the consistent backup to Will that's needed. It is up to the coaches to give him the right instructions about play management, ie pass or run in preference to kicking except in own 22m zone.

Long term, I think Stirzaker looks the best of the rest, and hopefully he will come on with time and experience as well.

 

[Slim 293]

Long term Backrow I think involves at least 2 injured players.

6 Fardy
7 Pocock
8 Higgers

19 Hooper of the bench for the last 30.

I would have Palu at 8.........

It was Higger's best season of Super Rugby yet, but there's a bit of Adam Thompson about him so far in that he's never been able to transform Super Rugby form to the test arena.........

Hopefully he'll eventually make the step up, as I'd have him rotating at 8 with Palu who we really only get half a season out of........

 

[Pete King]

Not sure with the most recent injury Palu could be sighted as a long term option. He would be alot better then Mowen though (in the short)

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm saying that Genia has been continually starting because there really aren't any other current options, or at the least every other feasible option has been tried and hasn't worked much better either.

This is the reality of limited depth and short of plucking someone from the ether who literally does not exist right now there isn't an easy or quick fix.

I have absolutely no idea where you got the notion that I was thinking anywhere along those lines, to be honest.

I'd like to see Phipps given the start this weekend but he's been demonstrably awful in the past as well and has never shown much upside to his game so it's an equally shit proposition to starting Genia again. I'd like him to prove me wrong but there has been an awful lot of whining about Genia not clearing from the base or quickly enough in general, I can't help but laugh thinking back on Phipps doing exactly that for most of his Wallaby career.

And that is precisely where Nic White has it over both Genia and Phipps. His service from the base of the scrum is the best. Even though a lot of posters derided his efforts when he came on against England, I would recommend a second viewing to take note of his passing game. One misdirected to Fat Cat who should have caught it anyway, and another forward pass under penalty advantage which didn't impact the game. Otherwise, crisp and well directed. Nic really needs to be persisted with and given every opportunity to show he can play at test level. Remember also that his kicking game is far superior to both Will and Phipps. Can't ever remember a box kick by Nic being charged down for a try.

 

[USARugger]

I have to disagree. Nic is the next best No 9 and needs to be given more opportunities so that he can develop into the consistent backup to Will that's needed. It is up to the coaches to give him the right instructions about play management, ie pass or run in preference to kicking except in own 22m zone.

Long term, I think Stirzaker looks the best of the rest, and hopefully he will come on with time and experience as well.

The issues I have with Nic right now revolve around the execution of his kicking and passing recently, which has been poor. Coaching plan aside, these are core skills and were seemingly not issues during Super Rugby but for whatever reason have become issues since then. If he had been coming off the bench recently and executing these skills well I'd have no problem with him starting..the issue is that he has been demonstrably poor in his execution to what seems like the same degree as Genia.

Not saying he doesn't deserve chances in the future but he's hardly demanding selection right now.

I'm just trying to say that it's unfair to Will to dump this much blame on him when there isn't a single scrum half in the squad (or Australia) right now that would make you stand up and say "He's our starter". The waters are murky at best right now and I believe that's why he has been continually selected.

 

[Slim 293]

The issues I have with Nic right now revolve around the execution of his kicking and passing recently, which has been poor. Coaching plan aside, these are core skills and were seemingly not issues during Super Rugby but for whatever reason have become issues since then. If he had been coming off the bench recently and executing these skills well I'd have no problem with him starting..the issue is that he has been demonstrably poor in his execution to what seems like the same degree as Genia.

That's not entirely true though, because up until the past few games his passing and kicking were both top notch when he was coming off the bench for Genia in the RC that led to his first start against the Argies..........

Obviously his most recent appearances haven't been the best, but we shouldn't discard some of the quality cameos he had during the RC.........

With Genia's form so absymal, White deserves a bit more game time..........