Rebels 2016

[stoff]

I would have thought RUPA would be unlikely to object in the instance that a franchise provided an additional professional spot assuming the minimum wage levels were met. The agreement between the ARU and Melbourne Rebels would be more important in this regard.

My understanding is that salary caps sit on fairly shaky legal ground from a restraint of trade perspective (based on years of discussion around them in the AFL), and they only exist due to the good will of the parties in implementing them. I expect someone more learned in this regard will be able to correct this assumption I have made based on listening to ex-AFL players on talkback drive radio.

 

[Highlander35]

I don't think there's anything illegal about a Salary Cap, as long as everyone pays at least minimum wage equivalent, there'd be nothing inherently illegal.

The issue for the AFL is the draft. Legal precedent in Australia (think the NRL tried it and lost) suggests that the particular restraint of trade imposed by the AFL is technically illegal, but is consented to by the AFLPA.

For us, I think that as long as we were paying at least standard minimum wage (whether main squad or EPS) to players beyond the traditional 35 man limit for full time squad members, the RUPA wouldn't mind, and unless the licensing was conditional on respecting the Salary Cap/Traditional squad limits, I don't think the ARU would be able to do anything about it as long as we played by SANZARs Rules.

Who knows though. Was just curious, since it was the first time we went over the 35/36 man limit, without it being specified that they were on a supplementary contract (i.e. Lalakai Foketi in '14).

 

[TOCC]

Squad sizes have been adjusted for next year presumably, its part of the new broadcast agreement and increase in grants to the clubs. It hasn't been formally announced but it was rumoured earlier in the year about increases in the size of EPS/WTS squads. My understanding is the full-time squad is 32 strong, with an additional 5 in the EPS who are still full time professionals just on a slightly lower wage taking the total full time squad to 37 players. WTS have no limit and the players aren't paid but come with separate CBA restrictions.

^^^^That's while the ARU was running all 5 clubs, with private ownership and depending on funding being received by the ARU who is to say the new owners are listening to the rules.

In Super Rugby the only Rules that really matter are the ones in place by Sanzar. If the Rebels are on their own the ARU really has no power to govern their actions.

No, all Australian Super Rugby clubs are signatories to the RUPA CBA, all Super Rugby players in the country are employees of not only their club but the ARU.. The sale of the Rebels would not have occurred without the contractual obligation of remaining compliant with the RUPA CBA. Also the ARU grants the Rebels private owners around $5million/annum, so there is a significant amount of power in governing their actions.

There are no SANZAR rules governing squad sizes of salary caps, that is the responsibility of the governing body(ARU/NZRU etc)

 

[Highlander35]

2016 Melbourne Rebels Full Squad:​

1. Cruze Ah-Nau – 24 Super Caps​

2. Paul Asquith (EPS)- 0 Super Caps​

3. Ryan Cocker - 0 Super Caps​

4. Cam Crawford - 16 Super Caps​

5. Steve Cummins - 2 Super Caps​

6. Jack Debreczeni - 21 Super Caps​

7. Tamati Ellison - 103 Super Caps​

8. Tom English - 39 Super Caps​

9. Colby Fainga’a - 65 Super Caps​

10. Harley Fox (EPS) - 0 Super Caps​

11. Scott Fuglistaller- 46 Super Caps​

12. Jamie Hagan - 104 Aviva Premiership and RaboDirect Pro12 Caps​

13. Mike Harris - 60 Super Caps​

14. James Hanson - 82 Super Caps​

15. Dan Hawkins (EPS) - 0 Super Caps​

16. Reece Hodge - 0 Super Caps​

17. Mitch Inman - 78 Super Caps​

18. Sam Jeffries - 5 Super Caps​

19. Luke Jones - 62 Super Caps​

20. Pat Leafa - 33 Super Caps​

21. Rob Leota (SUP) - 0 Super Caps​

22. Sean McMahon - 28 Super Caps​

23. Ben Meehan - 8 Super Caps​

24. Tim Metcher - 2 Super Caps​

25. Sefanaia Naivalu-13 Super Caps​

26. Jonah Placid-3 Super Caps​

27. Jordy Reid - 21 Super Caps​

28. Culum Retallick - 47 Super Caps​

29. Dom Shipperley - 57 Super Caps​

30. Siliva Siliva - 16 Super Caps​

31. Toby Smith - 65 Super Caps​

32. Mick Snowden (EPS) - 5 Super Caps​

33. Nic Stirzaker - 38 Super Caps​

34. Adam Thomson - 83 Super Caps​

35. Lopeti Timani - 36 Super Caps​

36. Sione Tuipulotu (SUP) - 0 Super Caps​

37. Laurie Weeks - 84 Super Caps​

​

Ah, here we go.​

Sione and Rob are technically on Supplementary contracts, EPS is composed of Asquith, Fox, Hawkins and Snowden. Good to know.​

​

http://www.melbournerebels.com.au/news/article/melbourne-rebels-reveal-right-mix-for-2016

 

[Highlander35]

Now based on that team what do we reckon for best 23?

1. Toby Smith
2. James Hanson
3. Laurie Weeks
4. Luke Jones
5. Lopeti Timani
6. Sean McMahon
7. Colby Fainga'a (c)
8. Adam Thomson
9. Nic Stirzaker
10. Jack Debreczeni
11. Sefanaia Naivalu
12. Mitch Inman
13. Tamati Ellison
14. Dom Shipperly
15. Mike Harris

16. Pat Leafa
17. Cruze Ah-Nau
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Culum Retallick
20. Jordy Reid
21. Ben Meehan
22. Reece Hodge
23. Cam Crawford

 

[swingpass]

i think you would see English on the bench in place of Hodge, and Siliva if he regains his prior form in place of Leafa, i love Pat for all the work he does but his linnet throwing is still a liability. Fuglistaller or Reid will depend on who they are playing i suspect. Thomson could play 6 and Fainga'a 8 - the McFaTho backrow

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Now based on that team what do we reckon for best 23?

1. Toby Smith
2. James Hanson
3. Laurie Weeks
4. Luke Jones
5. Lopeti Timani
6. Sean McMahon
7. Colby Fainga'a (c)
8. Adam Thomson
9. Nic Stirzaker
10. Jack Debreczeni
11. Sefanaia Naivalu
12. Mitch Inman
13. Tamati Ellison
14. Dom Shipperly
15. Mike Harris

16. Pat Leafa
17. Cruze Ah-Nau
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Culum Retallick
20. Jordy Reid
21. Ben Meehan
22. Reece Hodge
23. Cam Crawford

I reckon your starting 15 is probably spot on. There will be some solid competition for bench spots though...

16. Pat/Siliva
19. Retallick/Big Red/Cummins
20. Jordy/Fug
22. Hodge/Engo
23. Crawford/Jonah

 

[Mr Wobbly]

The lineout is still going to be a problem next year regardless of who is throwing it in. We really only have Jones and then Thomson, Colby and Sean probably switching around at the front.

Might be worth trying either Retallick or Big Red starting with LT at #8 and Thomson on the bench covering 6 and 8.

 

[Hawko]

The lineout is still going to be a problem next year regardless of who is throwing it in. We really only have Jones and then Thomson, Colby and Sean probably switching around at the front.

Might be worth trying either Retallick or Big Red starting with LT at #8 and Thomson on the bench covering 6 and 8.

Thompson's lineout skills would be as good as Kieren Read's. He is an excellent lineout option and very good at picking off the opposition's throws. He has an excellent vertical leap. With Jones and Thompson as the two key jumpers you then can use others around them as a third option. It'll work fine.

 

[wamberal]

Gee, I hope that Luke Jones has bulked up a bit. This could be his breakout season, if he wants it badly emough.

 

[Scooter]

Former Rebel Japanese international Male Sa'u has signed with Auckland Blues for 2016. Further bad signs for Sunwolves.

 

[Intruder]

Thompson's lineout skills would be as good as Kieren Read's. He is an excellent lineout option and very good at picking off the opposition's throws. He has an excellent vertical leap. With Jones and Thompson as the two key jumpers you then can use others around them as a third option. It'll work fine.

Not at all. The line outs will again struggle and IMO also at scrum time. The loss of PAE is huge, also Scott Higginbotham and Adam Thompson are almost the same in the lineout. Higgers has a lot more speed then Thompson.

 

[TOCC]

With Hanson and Thompson they have a very good foundation for a line out, throw in Luke Jones and there line out will be better then most.

 

[KevinO]

Nearly had a car crash about 30 minutes ago from the SHOCK of hearing a Melbourne Rebels add on the Radio (MMM). Been a long time since that has happened, at least the new owners seem to be pushing the Membership drive already.

 

[jmcallen]

Now based on that team what do we reckon for best 23?

1. Toby Smith
2. James Hanson
3. Laurie Weeks
4. Luke Jones
5. Lopeti Timani
6. Sean McMahon
7. Colby Fainga'a (c)
8. Adam Thomson
9. Nic Stirzaker
10. Jack Debreczeni
11. Sefanaia Naivalu
12. Mitch Inman
13. Tamati Ellison
14. Dom Shipperly
15. Mike Harris

16. Pat Leafa
17. Cruze Ah-Nau
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Culum Retallick
20. Jordy Reid
21. Ben Meehan
22. Reece Hodge
23. Cam Crawford

Agreed. Starting 15 looks spot on to me and like the © next to Fainga'a he was a natural leader during rising and carries the team well at do or die moments. Hanson will make a HUGE difference to line outs too about time we got a decent hooker in there

 

[elementfreak]

I think Colby has a bit to learn about being a captain though, in the Rising whilst watching the games he did seem to whinge a lot about things to the referees. Whilst it's part of his role to raise concerns a bit of the time it just looked like a poor relationship with the referees. Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

[Highlander35]

Who's the logical captain? Fugs probably fits best, but he's not starting 15, maybe even not best 23. Thomson, Hanson, Retallick are leadership material, but they're all newbies. Ellison can't stay after this year. Jackm Inman, Weeks, Toby, Sefa, Dom, Lopeti, all good players, all best 23 if not starting 15, not really captaincy material. McMahon, Jones, Stirzaker, all leaders, but for mine, too young, plus Nic has the Scrum half aspect. That leaves Mikey and Colby, and I don't like fullbacks being captain, I think they can get a little bit involved in their own game rather than the tam as a whole, same goes for props.

 

[jmcallen]

I think Colby has a bit to learn about being a captain though, in the Rising whilst watching the games he did seem to whinge a lot about things to the referees. Whilst it's part of his role to raise concerns a bit of the time it just looked like a poor relationship with the referees. Happy to be proven wrong though.

I think it had more to do with the poor discipline of our guys during NRC (multiple yellow cards/foul play ) He was forced to 'manage' a relationship with the referee rather than it being a poor one I thought.

Highlander35 your right mate they cant have fugs captain. towards end of 2015 season he wasn't even in match day 23. probably shouldnt be there again this season and the co captain thing was just illogical in my view

Fainga'a or Stirz are best fit

 

[oztimmay]

I think with the competition in the back row it will be hard to make one of them a Captain. There's bound to be a fair switch of personnel, depending on the game plan for the match.

My money is on little red assuming the captaincy. He's been doing a lot of the off-field promo work, which strikes me as grooming for greater on and off field leadership role. Besides he's a read so naturally I'll pick him.

 

[qwerty51]

Give McMahon the captaincy.