Reds 2011

[Red Rooster]

John Afoa wasnt selected for the June tests on his form at prop so he is transitioning to Hooker beacuse in comparison there is a lack of depth at hooker. John Afoa and Albert Anae are rather different as well, one is a player who has played at Test level, the other is a player who is trying to break into Super Rugby... apples and oranges

On top of that, New Zealand will never start a match with only one front rower on the bench, there will always be a requirement for 2 front row reserves in turn reducing the value or neceissity of having a utility front rower.

TOCC you were the one that said "there is no such thing as a prop/hooker" - I explained that it exists everywhere and current coaches value it and why. My comments related to the principle - Anae situation is no different to Afoa - both will end up adding value to a finite squad due to their versatility

Your other point is rubbish as the laws of the game compel you to have two front rowers on the bench capable of covering the roles. In france they have an 8 man bench with 3 front rowers. It is the fact that you only have 30 man RWC squads that see the AB's experimenting just as Deans has done - No reason the Super coaches cannot do it as well

 

[dobduff11]

"there is no such thing as a prop/hooker"- John Smit

 

[TOCC]

TOCC you were the one that said "there is no such thing as a prop/hooker" - I explained that it exists everywhere and current coaches value it and why. My comments related to the principle - Anae situation is no different to Afoa - both will end up adding value to a finite squad due to their versatility

I understand what your saying, and maybe you have misinterpreted what ive said, i'm sure if you troll the earth you will even find some prop/flyhalfs, my comment is in regard to super rugby and the greater wallaby picture.. A player might technically be able to play both hooker/prop, but they will be picked on there form for one position in particular, I've seen Polata-Nau play prop for the Barbarians, that doesn't make him hooker/prop

Your other point is rubbish as the laws of the game compel you to have two front rowers on the bench capable of covering the roles.

Yeah mate, that was the point

"there is no such thing as a prop/hooker"- John Smit

Well that kind of reaffirms my point, if he weren't captain he would have been dropped months ago

 

[chief]

"there is no such thing as a prop/hooker"- John Smit

John Smit is lucky to be in the Sharks team let alone the Boks team. He has been dreadful.

 

[TOCC]

Anyone going to the Reds open day today?

 

[Bruce Ross]

i wouldnt say that 6" is short

Unless you're talking about penises it's impossibly short. Are you sure you didn't mean 6'?:lmao:

 

[TOCC]

Ha, posting on your iPhone often leads to typos.. My bad

 

[Lee Grant]

In france they have an 8 man bench with 3 front rowers.

Correct, they've had it a few years now - which means they have a matchday 23.

The significant thing this season is that the other tournaments have followed suit. Now teams in the Heineken Cup, Magners League, Aviva Premiership, and Amlin CC all have to have 3 front rowers on the bench.

It's the sensible thing to do because it reduces the number of occasions when uncontested scrums have to be used (since one more injury is 'required').

It will spread to the SH as sure as God made little apples and I'm picking that after the 2011 RWC that the IRB will require all professional teams to have such a bench. Amateur rugby should stay as it is.

We in Oz should therefore get off our arses. If this doesn't make the ARU skew things so that more elite props are produced and properly trained, I don't know what will.

Incidentally, it is quite common in the NH to see two props replacing the other two props at the same time after 50 moinutes or so. Starting props seem to have a springier step as they know that it's on the cards that they will need just 50 minutes of petrol in every game. The SAffers will love it as they often had 4 props in their matchday 22s anyway.

 

[Lee Grant]

PS - if anybody wants to respond to this point please go to the "Prop dilemma" thread, which I have just noticed. I have quoted what I said in the above post.

 

[RugbyReg]

Anyone going to the Reds open day today?

was going to, but boys have been pretty atrocious this morning, so the consequence is no Reds day.

 

[Tank]

Speaking of judging a players weight by looking at him, when watching the Comm games, I thought Liam Gill looked very bulked up.

As a reds supporter losing Braid this year and hoping Gill steps up quickly (or somebody elese does!) and with all the talk of Gill being "too small" did anybody else think he has really added some size? (or at least looks like it)

 

[I like to watch]

Yeah he did look heavier, We spoke about it at home & were trying to work out whether he has added bulk, or that he looks heavier in comparison to the greyhounds he is surrounded by.
Remember the 6 packs of the Kiwis when doing the haka.
7's are def much leaner than 15's generally speaking.

 

[Gnostic]

I still think that Lei Tomeiki will be the answer for the Reds at 7 next year.

 

[en_force_er]

I still think that Lei Tomeiki will be the answer for the Reds at 7 next year.

Has he improved? Luafutu certainly doesn't, his body shape is going well away from a 7 to an 8.

He could well make a decent 8 but from what I've seen he takes odd options from the base of the scrum.

 

[Gnostic]

Tomeiki is a specialist 7 and is very much an on the ball scavenger. He has bulked up a bit but that isn't a bad thing as long as it hasn't compromised his agility. He spent virtually all 2010 injured.

 

[observer]

Speaking of judging a players weight by looking at him, when watching the Comm games, I thought Liam Gill looked very bulked up.

At the Darwin camp prior to Delhi they weighed the players each morning. Gill weighed in consistently at 99 kg.

 

[TOCC]

Has he improved? Luafutu certainly doesn't, his body shape is going well away from a 7 to an 8.

He could well make a decent 8 but from what I've seen he takes odd options from the base of the scrum.

Luafutu isnt contracted to the Reds in 2011 so no point talking about him, like mentioned already, Lei Tomiki is a specialist 7, and i dont know how much you can really take from his 2010 season, he was injured most of the time and only played one game.

 

[liquor box]

I think it's probably more accurate to judge a player's weight by looking at him rather then using the websites.

Obviously it isn't very accurate but at least your eyes can't deliberately misinform you.

So Leroy Houston topped out at about 175kg by my eyes:lmao:

S Finger seems to be bigger every time I see him too

 

[Lee Grant]

At the Darwin camp prior to Delhi they weighed the players each morning. Gill weighed in consistently at 99 kg.

You serious observer? - I know your mail is good.

 

[TOCC]

If anything you would expect him to have maybe dropped a little bit of weight having been in training with the 7's, 99kg would be quite amazing, 89kg would make more sense having his listed weight at 90kg..

I heard a little rumour in regards to Gill, he was potentially considered to take on the Wallabies tour, however in liason with the Reds it was agreed that a full off-season would be better for his development then a tour with the Wallabies, link wants him physically prepared enough for 2011 as he is very seriously considering having him as the starting 7.