Reds 2017

[The torpedo]

Agree Quade ran the backline and attack in 2011, Jim McKay rode the coat tails.

IIRC Quade said that Jim McKay was the architect of the 2011 title

EDIT: here's the post

Interesting to note that QC (Quade Cooper) described Jim McKay as the architect of the 2011 success, and he's just gone into a HC role in Japan. It doesn't help us for next season, but I think that we should try to bring him back after a couple of years.

 

[Floggn']

You can believe that if you want. Who said Quadey isn't a nice bloke or a strategist? After Deans demise who became the attack coach? If your answer is Jim McKay you would be correct but wrong.

 

[The torpedo]

You can believe that if you want. Who said Quadey isn't a nice bloke or a strategist? After Deans demise who became the attack coach? If your answer is Jim McKay you would be correct but wrong.

Re-read the post

 

[Floggn']

I should read the whole post!

 

[TheBigDog]

Duncan Paia'aua needs to be dropped as well. His defence has been absolutely woeful and his hands have been rubbish. Chris Kuidrani is a genuine turnstile, he runs at holes it seems but that is when he is defending! How do these people keep getting run on jerseys? Sorry turned into a good rant there.

I'm willing to cut these guys, along with Kerevi who has also been poor defensively a bit of slack.

They are in high traffic channels and yes, should be making more tackles, however, the whole defensive mindset of the Reds is clearly lacking. Once you lose confidence in someone else in the defensive line, you being making mistakes yourself and they are far more noticeable in those positions. I don't think those guys are out and out bad defensive players but are definitely feeling the heat of what seems to a be broken system and mentality.

 

[gel]

I'm not too sure if some of you are being serious about cutting Duncan.

He's been one of the very few highlights IMHO.

He's also one of the few out there that can read a game (other than QC (Quade Cooper) and Hunt) - watch his movement off the ball - he's a footballer through and through.

 

[hammertimethere]

If you think Duncan has played poorly...you are blind and/or from NSW. I've been saying since the start of the year that he should be the back up 10 and Jake Mac should be sent back to club with another 12 on the bench (?Taefu)

 

[Scoey]

Duncan has missed a fair few tackles granted, but he's attempted nearly the highest number of tackles in the comp and I believe he has one of the best completion rates in the comp also. He also attempts a ton of cover tackles when someone else has missed. When he falls off these they shouldn't be counted as a miss against him but they are.
He has consistently been one of the Reds best.

 

[Floggn']

If you think Duncan has played poorly.you are blind and/or from NSW. I've been saying since the start of the year that he should be the back up 10 and Jake Mac should be sent back to club with another 12 on the bench (?Taefu)

Nope just a dumb QLdr. He was good in the first 3 games. BUT his form in the last 3 has been ordinary. PLenty of dropped ball in the Saders, Lions and Jag game. Missed tackles in the last 3. Potential sure but you don't reward poor games when they are young with another selection.

 

[RugbyReg]

Nope just a dumb QLdr. He was good in the first 3 games. BUT his form in the last 3 has been ordinary. PLenty of dropped ball in the Saders, Lions and Jag game. Missed tackles in the last 3. Potential sure but you don't reward poor games when they are young with another selection.

According to this site
he made 19 tackles and missed 1 last weekend & no handling errors
last week he made 15 and missed 0 & 2 handling errors
Rnd 5 (v Jags) he made 10 and missed 5 & 1 handling error
Rnd 4 (v Lio) he made 6 and missed 4 & 8 handling errors
Rnd 3 (v Cru) he made 14 and missed 0 & 4 handling errors
Rnd 2 (v For) he made 6 and missed 1 & 0 handling errors
Rnd 1 (v Sha) he made 1 and missed 2 & 2 handling errors

So it was a shocking OS tour for him, but other than that he's been pretty damn good. He's actually in the top 10 for the tournament's top tacklers.

A poor game v the Lions and Cru in terms of handling errors.

But I think your focus on poor players may be better served elsewhere in the team.

 

[Floggn']

Reg I saw him get bumped off 2 and defend into no mans land twice which enabled two line breaks. I have been watching him intently of late to make my mind up on him as a player. Might not be fair after a handful of games but thats just me. As much as Stats can be a guide I certainly wouldn't bet my house on them. You can ask 5 blokes to do stats on a game and I reckon they will all have different results.

I think after he made that one big hit against Crotty he has tried to repeat it and it has backfired numerous times.

 

[Floggn']

Duncan has missed a fair few tackles granted, but he's attempted nearly the highest number of tackles in the comp and I believe he has one of the best completion rates in the comp also. He also attempts a ton of cover tackles when someone else has missed. When he falls off these they shouldn't be counted as a miss against him but they are.
He has consistently been one of the Reds best.

Surely if a bloke falls off any tackle in the professional game it should be a miss. But you do touch on a point which probably is at crux of their problems. Trust. Normally if there are defence issues people aren't doing their job properly and then blokes who are then start covering for that person & most times prematurely. I'm not saying he does but there clearly is a huge problem with defence in the Reds and Gilmore is responsible for that and fixing it quick.

 

[nightnday]

Surely if a bloke falls off any tackle in the professional game it should be a miss. But you do touch on a point which probably is at crux of their problems. Trust. Normally if there are defence issues people aren't doing their job properly and then blokes who are then start covering for that person & most times prematurely. I'm not saying he does but there clearly is a huge problem with defence in the Reds and Gilmore is responsible for that and fixing it quick.

Jason Gilmore is absolutely out of his depth but obviously is part of the clique at the QRU. How can he be anyway qualified? Up until now he has only coached kids and youths. How do Reds players even take him seriously. The exact same can be said for Shane Arnold.

 

[Floggn']

Absolutely correct on both fronts. Stiles needs experience to help his in-experience not two blokes who are just starting out.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Absolutely correct on both fronts. Stiles needs experience to help his in-experience not two blokes who are just starting out.

As a matter of interest, is Brad Thorn still in the picture at the Reds? Or should he perhaps be brought in asap?

 

[nightnday]

Absolutely correct on both fronts. Stiles needs experience to help his in-experience not two blokes who are just starting out.

I cannot fathom the Reds board's thinking. They realised that RG needed to have some old heads around after 2 seasons and brought in Knuckles andwithout talking RG up he had already been a head coach of a Super Rugby side and coached overseas. Then after a world wide search, find Stiles in the QRU carpark with no Head Coach experience. Instead of surrounding him with experience they found Gilmour and Arnold, who as far as a I can see have only coached Queensland sides, in the QRU stairwell and didn't even get to the carpark in their search!
I can only think that it has to do with money and lack of experience often equals cheap. The same can be said for player recruitment, pay the bulk of the salaries to a few older heads and the balance of the funds are spread out amongst young guys of a similar ilk.

 

[dru]

I cannot fathom the Reds board's thinking. They realised that RG needed to have some old heads around after 2 seasons and brought in Knuckles andwithout talking RG up he had already been a head coach of a Super Rugby side and coached overseas. Then after a world wide search, find Stiles in the QRU carpark with no Head Coach experience. Instead of surrounding him with experience they found Gilmour and Arnold, who as far as a I can see have only coached Queensland sides, in the QRU stairwell and didn't even get to the carpark in their search!
I can only think that it has to do with money and lack of experience often equals cheap. The same can be said for player recruitment, pay the bulk of the salaries to a few older heads and the balance of the funds are spread out amongst young guys of a similar ilk.

The ARU were offered positions in the HC review committee. They were big on coaching pathways at the time. Kind of belated. But nice.

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic



What an odd post !



I made a point about a few senior players not standing up. I questioned and made an observation.



Of course I support Stiles ATM. Blokes I'm pissed off with are Moore Douglas Cooper, Frisby, Kerevi and some others to a lesser degree. Those players should be stepping up to the plate but are not. At the end of the day we have an excellent forwards roster and an average backs one. Accountability is a 2 way street. First and foremost it is the players.



The "culture" question always raises its ugly head when a team is in a down spiral. Nothing breeds success like success.



The question to be levelled at Stiles is how can he get the best from his roster. Fucked if I know personally except to say drop a couple of the big names like Moore and maybe Dougo to send the message to the rest of the group.



Gnostic with your thought processes no doubt you have been a loud advocate for the dropping of Cheika as national coach, based on his player's performances and in particular his win/loss ratio.

1) I am an odd person in general, some would say also strange and others just downright annoying..........
2) Stupidity and/or continually blindly following, (even when assessments made and proved) those "in charge" because they are in charge and by that very fact must be qualified and know more than the rest of us, just shits me to tears. Wilfully being ignorant and "loyal" does not produce better outcomes. However that said I have to acknowledge the wisdom imparted to me by a good rugby mate the last time this very subject came up, to paraphrase ' I'm a non conformist and a bit of an idealist, but society is based on conformity and it's smooth running is dependant on these people and there is little room for those such as me who will more often than not be dismayed and dissatisfied with the proceedings.' This point is also for Scoey two posts above.
3) I couldn't care less about win:loss ratios. I've never been interested in winning for winning sake. I am one of the very few who view the MacQueen era critically because the Rugby was horrid, endless Rugby league style phases for large parts, with some scattered Rugby played. There is no doubt it was highly successful for that period, but the system directly led to some serious compromises over the following decade in terms of player development and skills. No win:loss means jack to me, I am interested in systems. A well designed system will survive incompetence in managers because of the integrity of the system itself, and part of that is transparency.
The Reds issues go far past a few senior individuals, and without breaking confidences I will just say I was told things last year that indicated at these outcomes. But essentially Styles was appointed by a process that appointed Graham and re-appointed him, and the assistant coaches likewise. No complete group across the skill sets required was gathered. The coaches at the pinnacle of their careers are learning many of the basics on the job.

As for Cheika, sack him? Hmmmm, before any decision is made there have to be credible alternatives. The disaster of Link's loss undermined depth in Australian Rugby coaching as one of the few who had both longevity and results he had far more to offer, but we will never know the full story behind his leaving. Again the systems that investigated and led to his decision cost Rugby a fortune. No sacking Cheika is not a remote option. What Cheika has done though is mirrored in the Reds own dilemma, he reacted slowly to issues that fatally compromised his teams only taking action after the horse bolted and got hit by a train. With Byrne on board we may see long term results, but he will be pushing the proverbial up hill against very very poor ARU systems.

 

[dru]

^^^
Gnostic. Thank you.

I dont often agree with you, but you sure as hell put things in perspective. It's freaking tough to get clarity at the moment.

Well done.

 

[liquor box]

Reg I saw him get bumped off 2 and defend into no mans land twice which enabled two line breaks. I have been watching him intently of late to make my mind up on him as a player. Might not be fair after a handful of games but thats just me. As much as Stats can be a guide I certainly wouldn't bet my house on them. You can ask 5 blokes to do stats on a game and I reckon they will all have different results.

I think after he made that one big hit against Crotty he has tried to repeat it and it has backfired numerous times.

I have been watching him closely and thinking he deserves to be in the Wallaby squad but will miss out due to not being either an incumbent or the coaches favourite returning from England.

Along with Hunt they have been among the best in every game they have played, this might be a reflection on how poor the team is or their skill, this is the big question