Reds v. Crusaders, May 29th, Suncorp - 2011R15

[Tangawizi]

Looking forward to see how the Crusaders bounce back against the Blues. They'll pretty much need a bonus point win to no points for the Blues in that one to have a chance at top spot in the NZ conference going into the last weekend.

 

[chriscullen]

Tom Marshall has been in good form, All Black material in a couple of years , watch out for him.

 

[RedsHappy]

Okay, time for me to share my thoughts on the game. I am not going to discuss Stu Dickenson, that has been done ad nauseam across the interweb over the past 24 hours.

I thought that was a fantastic game of Rugby. Both teams played with 100% commitment, and IMO the contest lived up to the hype and expectation. The Reds proved to their few remaining doubters that they are the real deal, and the Crusaders showed that they are once again in the top few teams of the comp.

I think the Crusaders will greatly rue their inability to capitalise on a couple of genuine try scoring opportunities. Sure they were missing Maitland and Dagg, but the way they squandered the Willie Heinz break in particular was inexcusable. I counted three support players as well as Heinz against a solitary Reds defender only metres from the tryline. You'd expect most under 12s teams to have scored the try. Overall, I thought the Crusaders attack was as poor as it has been all season. How many times did SBW or Carter recieve a pass, only to almost come to a complete stop before ambling a few steps for a pass, or deciding late that they would run the ball but struggle to make headway because they were starting flat-footed? Tom Marshall is a honest trier, but made several poor decisions at key moments. That's not to blame him completely, he wasn't in our main squad this season and is only getting game time because Dagg and 2nd choice fullback Maitland are both out. Ward is another solid but limited player. The slowest winger in S15 replacing the fastest (Maitland).

The Reds will be concerned about how badly their set piece fell away. Their scrum was expected to struggle, but what surpised me was their lineout. Saia Fainga'a seemed to lose all confidence in his throwing, and this had a flow on effect through the entire lineout.

I thought both teams contested well at the breakdown. Both teams defended well and both teams were arguably below their best in attack. The much discussed match up between Cooper and Carter provided no surpises. QC (Quade Cooper) displayed moments of sheer brilliance, bordering on rugby-genius, whereas Carter was the more solid of the two, and was by far the better kicker.

As a Crusaders fan, I was absolutely gutted last night. But I have recovered. TBH, finishing in the top 3 is not a big issue for us. We can't play at AMI stadium anyway, so we were always going to be playing an 'away' final. Equally, our horrendus season of weekly out of flights out of Christchurch means we are arguably better prepared to travel for a final than any other team in SANZAR. Moreover, I think the Crusaders players will be gutted after that loss, and if these two teams do meet again I expect them to lift their intensity levels even more.

Prior to the match, I predicted that the key and match determining match up could be Genia vs Heinz. I don't want to pretend to be a Nostradamus, but IMO that prediction came to fruition. Will Genia is arguably the form no.9 in world rugby, and his leadership and all round skillset were vitally important to QLD's effort. In contrast Willie Heinz is an honest but limited club player, who is our 3rd ranker halfback but arguably should be our 4th choice given that quality player Steve Alfeld was on the bench on Sunday. Heinz crumbled under the pressure, blew a certain try and overall his service was as bad as I've seen at pro level in a very long time.

So AC, given all of this, are you saying that you think the Reds deserved to win?

 

[qwerty51]

Top post. I think with someone more accomplished at 9 you would have won.

Someone more accomplished as ref and they would've won too. But Reds fans won't wanna go there

 

[disco]

Andy Ellis had a better game this year at suncorp than he did last year now all of a sudden he's the saviour.

 

[Ali's Choice]

So AC, given all of this, are you saying that you think the Reds deserved to win?

Strange question. As I said in my previous post, both teams played very well. Both teams did many good things and some bad things. Obviously when a game is decided by one point, both teams deserve to win.

 

[Shiggins]

Sorry what does that mean? I know you didn't mean literally but how does one take the ref out of the game?

Play better rugby?

The crusaders had so many chances to counter attack from kicks and that's what they usually do. But they didn't. They got suked into trying a kicking duel and even though they won the tactical kicking in my opinion counter attacking would have got them points. Saying all of this I think both teams were too tired too run the ball. The one thing that stuck out for
Me was the face QC (Quade Cooper) and sbw are so fucking fit. They were the only 2 still trying too counter attack. Everyone else was dead. These two guys are freaks.


Go the force!!!!

 

[Ali's Choice]

Play better rugby?

The crusaders had so many chances to counter attack from kicks and that's what they usually do. But they didn't. They got suked into trying a kicking duel and even though they won the tactical kicking in my opinion counter attacking would have got them points. Saying all of this I think both teams were too tired too run the ball. The one thing that stuck out for
Me was the face QC (Quade Cooper) and sbw are so fucking fit. They were the only 2 still trying too counter attack. Everyone else was dead. These two guys are freaks.


Go the force!!!!

Sbw played his worst game of the year in attack, and while he made many good tackles, he had a long break in the 1st half with a cut hand.

 

[Sully]

Sbw played his worst game of the year in attack, and while he made many good tackles, he had a long break in the 1st half with a cut hand.

I thought he was OK just well controlled by the Reds defence.

 

[Shiggins]

Sbw played his worst game of the year in attack, and while he made many good tackles, he had a long break in the 1st half with a cut hand.

So your saying QC (Quade Cooper) is fitter? Either way it was a joy too watch.


Go the force!!!!

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

Someone more accomplished as ref and they would've won too. But Reds fans won't wanna go there

One of your funnier posts, I must say.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Play better rugby?

The crusaders had so many chances to counter attack from kicks and that's what they usually do. But they didn't. They got suked into trying a kicking duel and even though they won the tactical kicking in my opinion counter attacking would have got them points. Saying all of this I think both teams were too tired too run the ball. The one thing that stuck out for
Me was the face QC (Quade Cooper) and sbw are so fucking fit. They were the only 2 still trying too counter attack. Everyone else was dead. These two guys are freaks.


Go the force!!!!

I don't think we had the cattle to counter attack from Reds kicks. Marshall and Ward are not up to that style of gameplan and it showed.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

One of your funnier posts, I must say.

He's always good value in any thread related to the Reds :lmao: Dependable entertainment, so long as you realise that no team except the Tahs are allowed to actually win anything! Nice pass on the bait, it's looking a bit ragged...

 

[Sandpit Fan]

I don't think we had the cattle to counter attack from Reds kicks. Marshall and Ward are not up to that style of gameplan and it showed.

As someone said somewhere else, when you replace one of the fastest wingers in the comp with one of the slowest... Dagg & Maitland can cut any team apart on the counter with their pace and stepping ability. Anyhow, with the hosing we were getting in the lineouts, returning it with a well placed kick wasn't the worst option to take a lot of the time.

 

[No4918]

Looking forward to see how the Crusaders bounce back against the Blues. They'll pretty much need a bonus point win to no points for the Blues in that one to have a chance at top spot in the NZ conference going into the last weekend.

Hopefully the Crusaders can get to the top. Don't want the Reds to have meet them again until the GF. 2 in a row over them is hard enough without pushing it for 3.

 

[Riptide]

Tom Marshall has been in good form, All Black material in a couple of years , watch out for him.

I doubt he'll get within an arse's roar of the ABs. He was the worst player on the pitch on Sunday, failing to make any good decisions with the ball in hand. Nearly, every time he had possession, the ball was subsequently turned over to the Reds. I doubt we will see him at the business end of the tournament even with Crusader injuries. He is a liability.

 

[RedsHappy]

Strange question. As I said in my previous post, both teams played very well. Both teams did many good things and some bad things. Obviously when a game is decided by one point, both teams deserve to win.

I don't think it is that axiomatic and obvious re the 'deserve factor' - with a 1 point margin - but thanks for answering.

 

[RedsHappy]

.....Saia Fainga'a seemed to lose all confidence in his throwing, and this had a flow on effect through the entire lineout.....

AC: Just an add-on to your very good post on the game: at the game, my observation was that a number of Reds' players seemed very nervous and error-prone (especially in its earlier stages), as though 'the occasion', crowd size, the prestige of the opposition, the pre-hype, etc, really got to them when they hit the grass. Very much including QC (Quade Cooper) (but not Genia or Horwill) whom I thought was often anxious whenever he was not in a totally 'must react instantly' situation (and in those situations, as you note, his instinctive reactions were often extraordinarily good). His kicking from hand was often as erratic as was his place kicking (when he has place kicking blues it is often in the earlier periods, and he settles in the later periods).

I actually think Bullrush was somewhat right when he observed that QC (Quade Cooper), despite his exceptional talents which are now well recognised, has issues in high-pressure moments against the best opposition, not always, but it is there. NB: None of the foregoing is meant as any kind of 'excuse', just an observation. And an observation that is entirely consistent with Cooper's (and many other young Reds) age and short time at the top. Very few have had the years of game-hardening in the very top league that say Richie McCaw and Dan Carter and Brad Thorn have had, and for me, that showed in key moments (and certainly showed in Carter's peerless cool+talent at every moment). I also think these factors were partly true for SBW as well, he never seemed to relax into his game (plus the Reds dealt with him exceptionally well I thought).

Whilst it is absolutely admirable the incredible consistency of quality that Richie and Dan have shown over many years at the top, it is also noteworthy how the Reds are achieving what they are against top opposition, given the relatively young age of a number of their key players.

 

[Scotty]

Play better rugby?

The crusaders had so many chances to counter attack from kicks and that's what they usually do. But they didn't. They got suked into trying a kicking duel and even though they won the tactical kicking in my opinion counter attacking would have got them points. Saying all of this I think both teams were too tired too run the ball. The one thing that stuck out for
Me was the face QC (Quade Cooper) and sbw are so fucking fit. They were the only 2 still trying too counter attack. Everyone else was dead. These two guys are freaks.


Go the force!!!!

SBW did have a 15 minute break in the first half though.

 

[Scotty]

I don't think we had the cattle to counter attack from Reds kicks. Marshall and Ward are not up to that style of gameplan and it showed.

Big difference to Dagg and Maitland.

It seemed that Carter fielded almost all kicks in the second half. Is he being hidden in defense?:fishing