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Reds vs Sharks Rnd 4 2012

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Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
On the issue of digby tackle. I'm not going to argue that it was not a penalty offence, it defiantly was - but I find it highly hypocritical when you have the saffa commentators going on about how it should be a red card considering last season we saw many instances of south african players attacking the head/neck area in rucks which is just as dangerous as a spear tackle yet never talked about.

It was a yellow because digby didn't really take him beyond the horizontal and he didn't drop him or drive him into the ground.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Digby has been cited for foul play and I suspect he might be slapped with a 1 game ban.

This makes you wonder about this white card system. The matter was dealt with on the spot by the ref and he thought he adequetly dealt with the matter or else he would of used his white card to signal that it needed further review.

This white card thing is going to be a shitstorm of confusion. Ironic as it should be providing more clarity.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
In regards to the 5/2 bench split...

Losing 2 playmakers is pretty damn unlucky, particularly when they're your only 2 goal kickers...

However, A Fainga'a is also a goal kicker (although it's been a while, but he did the job for the Canberra Vikings in the ARC), so it wouldn't have been as bad if he was there...

I'm just glad the Brumbies have 4 (or 5? Prior?) guys in the match day 22 that can line up if needed...
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
On the issue of digby tackle. I'm not going to argue to much that it was a penalty offence - but I find it highly hypocritical when you have the saffa commentators going on about how it should be a red card considering last season we saw many instances of south african players attacking the head/neck area in rucks which is just as dangerous as a spear tackle yet never talked about.

It was a yellow because digby didn't really take him beyond the horizontal and he didn't drop him or drive him into the ground.

At least all conferences have bias commentary these days. Comments comparing the tackle to the one in the world cup semi when it was very different, referring to the young Sharks as heroes (WTF?), and constantly telling us it would be interesting to see if the 'champion Reds' could finish off like a champion side knowing full well how hard it would be after the loss of both playmakers and seemingly questioning their right to that title if they couldn't.
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
Bb, assuming Link would have gone with a 4/3, whom in your opinion is the added Reds back that would have credibly been the savior, and, by your inference above, made all the difference.

Your jibe at Link noted (obviously deserved as he's lost a single game), but do you think it's an easy scenario to plan for and deal with your 2 10s getting injured, one v early in 1H and another early in 2H?


I guess Lance on the bench might have helped, in hindsight he would have been a better option than Morahan the way injuries panned out. But coaches don't have a crystal ball & the 5-2 split has worked just fine for us in the past, no one can predict two 10's going down in the same match.
 

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
I hope Lucas, Harris and Ioane are available against the Bulls next week, otherwise it could be a very dour affair. If Lucas is fit, he should slot straight into #10. He looked good there while he was on last night. Looking at the touring squad, we could be seeing a backline like this:

9. Genia
10. Lance
11. Ioane
12. Tapuai
13. Morahan
14. Shipperly
15. Davies
------------------------
21. Frisby
22. Murphy
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I think the last line of Bowsides post sums it up. It's a loss I can cop, losing two playmakers against a quality side was always going to be tough. Credit to the Sharks, someone eluded to it before, but we lost that game in the last 5 mins of the first half.

Also does anyone actually know the extent of Harris' and Lucas' injuries? One of them didn't look too bad (cant remember due to being half sleep).

Digby has been cited for foul play and I suspect he might be slapped with a 1 game ban.

Which leaves us without 9 available backs in the squad, and I 100% don't want Radike on the wing. What's Toua, Fainga'a and F'Sautia's injury status? They might need to be flown over.

tl12: always like yours and Bowside's work, but a comment or two:

- yes, the loss of two 10s had a massive impact on the Reds' game. Not an excuse but a hard fact is that if Lucas had stayed on, he looked great, and the score would have been much closer as he would have made 1 or both of Genia's missed kicks and we not have had an ersatz 10 in poor Genia fumbling around in the role....and Genia's last (high) bad pass to Taps (then Taps loss of the ball from his upper body via a good tackle, then any last scoring chance gone) summed up his problems as the match progressed. Losing a 10 and a 12 (who can be a 10) at key match points (and the two anointed good kickers) in one match is rare, and an absolute game-turner.

- let's not ever get into the zone of numerous Tahs' fanatics and bias our comments to the comfort of the 'unlucky loss' scenario (meaning we under-analyse the flaws sitting silently under the 'unlucky' part). We made many errors, and Bb has a point re the potential risks of 5-2 bench (though debatable). Look at the turnover stats, wasn't it 9 conceded Reds to 4 Sharks. Look at the poor ball security yielding turnovers in bad places (for us) and backline dropsies, this flaw has been there every single 2012 game and was a significant contributor to the tries scored against us last night. Also, there was defensive 'dreaminess' and lapses in at least 2 of the Sharks tries, not totally dissimilar to v Force. I have referenced Genia's kicking under pressure, I think it's a 2/10 reward-to-risk ploy and is often badly executed by him. Morahan: Link is now over-indulging his generally mediocre form. We let a massive lead to zero totally slip away and we added only 5 more points the whole game. Our forwards' intensity at the breakdown seemed to fall off as 2H evolved (unlike the typical 2011 Reds). S Finger's not straight throw at the very last line out was unjustlifiably poor (and not untypical of him under the pump)...we just might have made something out of line out possession there. Feel for Diggers, but, as a senior seasoned player that he knows we rely on, that tackle was reckless and risky, those can be win-killing errors and his absence in the opening of 2H was a serious problem for the team. IMO, Genia should not at all have been place kicker, I'd have thought Morahan or Taps would have much better place kicking pedigrees from their Club days.

Bottom line IMO: many 2012 S15 teams are on impressive skills, game control, and intensity improvements curves over 2011. E.g. Chiefs, Sharks, Highlanders, Brumbies, Rebels, and the Stormers are undefeated so far. This cannot be said (yet) of our 2012 Reds, and, in some respects, we're pedalling subtly backwards.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
RH or any other Brothers observers give us a bit of synopsis on Murphy. Sounds like an exciting kid but I don't know stuff all about him.

Cheers.
 

twenty seven

Tom Lawton (22)
Jeez - Reds Happy maybeshould be Reds Unhappy! We are 3 from four with not yet top game play so right now I am still positive. What I am happy about is our young players stepping up.
Things will fall into place.
Remaining positive.
Go the Reds
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
RH or any other Brothers observers give us a bit of synopsis on Murphy. Sounds like an exciting kid but I don't know stuff all about him.

Cheers.
Can't say I've watched him week-in-week-out but I do get to watch him 3 or so times a season and everytime he has impressed me. Great organizational skills, good goal kicking, has a good long pass on him and has a bit of flair aswell (or maybe that's just the Red hair? ahaha". The reports from the Reds "A" teams matches have been very positive about him, I have no worries about him starting.

RH I'd hate to see what you'd be like if you were a Waratahs supporter right now! Nothing to panic about, we are in a better position then almost everyone except the Highlanders, Stormers and Chiefs in regards to form.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Jeez - Reds Happy maybeshould be Reds Unhappy! We are 3 from four with not yet top game play so right now I am still positive. What I am happy about is our young players stepping up.
Things will fall into place.
Remaining positive.
Go the Reds

Mate, you get me wrong, I am not saying we have 'lost the comp':eek: or even close. I remain positive BUT the heart of improving and gaining more wins than losses is ALWAYS honest self-analysis. I sense somewhere as I did v Force that we have gotten just a treensy bit of 'champions' disease', namely we (only semi-consciously) think we deserve to win and they'll just come, and we're not yet improving much over 2011. Perhaps a loss is exactly what the doctor ordered (Cyclo?) so long as we don't over-emphasise the loss of Harris and Lucas as 'the sole reason'.
 

Brisbok

Cyril Towers (30)
Jeez - Reds Happy maybeshould be Reds Unhappy! We are 3 from four with not yet top game play so right now I am still positive. What I am happy about is our young players stepping up.
Things will fall into place.
Remaining positive.
Go the Reds
I think RH's point is, at this stage, the Reds have not shown much improvement in the 4 games that they've played. The "things will fall into place...leave it to Link, he knows what he's doing....we did it last year, so we will do it again this year" attitude is what annoys me about some comments from Reds fans this year.

Like it or not, the loss of Quade Cooper is a massive loss. While that factor alone doesn't all of a sudden make a Championship winning team, a bad team, it does have a significant impact.

If I can compare it to what I think is a similar (obviously not exactly the same) situation, is the Bulls of 2011 without Fourie du Preez for much of the season. They were the undisputed Champions in 2010, yet failed to make the finals the following season with pretty much the same team.

Losing one of your main playmaker's/decision makers can at times turn a great team into merely just a good team. There is also no guarantee that when they come back from long term injury, they will be the same player and have the same impact on the team's performance.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Can't say I've watched him week-in-week-out but I do get to watch him 3 or so times a season and everytime he has impressed me. Great organizational skills, good goal kicking, has a good long pass on him and has a bit of flair aswell (or maybe that's just the Red hair? ahaha". The reports from the Reds "A" teams matches have been very positive about him, I have no worries about him starting.

RH I'd hate to see what you'd be like if you were a Waratahs supporter right now! Nothing to panic about, we are in a better position then almost everyone except the Highlanders, Stormers and Chiefs in regards to form.

Agree completely re yr notes on DM. Excellent 180 degree field vision too, a bit like QC (Quade Cooper), just instantly senses where there's spaces or holes for his backs, left and right of his own position. Re him starting: hmmm....v Bulls in SA....not an easy baptism for a rookie in a crucial position. But I think he's tough enough.

Perhaps as you imply I should move over to the Tahs and thus have my wife prepare for an early death through self-induced extreme anxiety.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Brisbok, has Link chatted up your daughter or something? You seem to have it in for him. The bloke is not perfect despite some thinking the sun shines out of his backside but far more often than not his judgement has been spot on rather than not.

Despite the loss I think that was our best game of the year. The wheels fell off for various reasons but we did see the reds playing their natural game with ball in hand. We looked more comfortable in doing so. We are finding our niche and that gives me confidence we are heading in the right direction.

I should of done this earlier but full credit to the Sharks. They absorbed a lot of pressure, had their own injury concerns and their young players stood up. They much deserved their win.
 

twenty seven

Tom Lawton (22)
I hear what you're saying. I am just reserving judgement for another couple of games. The impact of not having Quade has come home to roost and finding that 'link' (no pun intended!) is proving more difficult then first thought - I don't know. I think they have made the right choice in Lucas in 10 so I hope he is okay. I know people use the term ' it's the loss they had to have', a term I hate, but maybe it is a bit of a wakeup call that there is a lot of work to be done.
 
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