• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Refs' Room 2009

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
I made comment elsewhere that the Crus half was all over Holmes and the ref did nothing - the manhandling was intense and it's about time the refs and assistant refs started doing their job. It wasn't just one instance either and it just shows that refs in most cases have their scans and procedures and anything happening outside their scan just doesn't get seen or acted on.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Does this count as Ref's Room quality discussion?

Leckie is a :clown

Seemingly out of his depth in every area of the game.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Scarfman said:
Does this count as Ref's Room quality discussion? Leckie is a :clown Seemingly out of his depth in every area of the game.

I'm going to (mostly) disagree with you here, Scarfie. Leckie's adjudication of the scrum where he firstly pinged Robinson for boring in, picked up on the Clan THP not continuing the engagement (in fact they once stood up straight on the engagement) and then hammered the Tahs for Palmer collapsing every scrum he was in, bar one, was very good. Calling the Tahs for offside at Carter's non-try was quite correct. Most times during the game he was in a good position to call on the tackle and didn't muck about with players hanging on to the pill. The penalty against the Clan when the player flopped on an isolated Tuqiri was excellent refereeing.

However, his overly pedantic calls for free kicks to be taken from this blade of grass rather than that were unforgiveable. And his policing of the 10m at free kicks was generally poor; one early in the game was bang on the half way line and the offenders were nowhere near the 10m line before moving in to tackle. Why don't the touchies/AR give him a bell on the two-way at times like this?
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
... and the Clan non-forward pass, and the inside 10 ruling against SNK who kicked the ball.

I must admit, I thought he was taking turns awarding penalties in the scrum, and Phil Waugh agreed in the paper this morning in a rare touch-up of the ref. But you certainly sound as if you were looking more closely than me. I was pretty busy drinking and shouting at the TV.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Well, I was sitting between His Ancientness and His Majesty, so I had to be on my toes. Or is that my clacker? :nta: :nta: :nta:
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
Did he actually call it a forward pass? It was right in front of me and it looked like Palu managed to get a hand on the ball while bowden was juggling it which would have made it a knock on and actually a very good decision. Im assuming thats the pass you were talking about.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
the gambler said:
Did he actually call it a forward pass? It was right in front of me and it looked like Palu managed to get a hand on the ball while bowden was juggling it which would have made it a knock on and actually a very good decision. Im assuming thats the pass you were talking about.
I wondered about that at the time, as Leckie seemed to be in good position to judge whether forward or not, so I was very surprised to see it called back. I must admit, I wasn't sure what the ruling would be if a Tah hand had touched the ball, and still thought it was wrong, but I defer to any actual referees who have an opinion.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
I last reffed a long time ago but pretty sure it would be a knock on as soon as it touched an opposition player. Just saw a replay that didnt really look like Palu got a hand on it but at the game, and despite being on my 7th or 8th beer at the stage, Im sure he did touch it.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
A question for the erudite ones here.
With a ruck formed, how can the "attacking" team have 2 players standing 2-3 feet in front of the ball, unbound to each other or anyone else and not be obstructing? Just saw it in the first few minutes of the Force / Brumbies. And if so, why the hell don't the other team just pummel them out of there?
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
This always happens these days Cyclo. If they are not bound they are off side. Also in clearing out players are only meant to go 1m past the ball. Refs could pin them but would be accused of being pedantic and petty if they did. Teams could try an take them out but are usually more concerned with posting up and being set for the next phase.

Some players like Rodney Sol are real experts at this and take it a step further and grab defenders jerseys etc to slow them down.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Nice to see TJs/ARs get the "moving ball near touch" ruling right, finally. During the first half the Saders kicked the ball downfield from inside their own half. It snuck inside the corner post by a whisker and, while still moving, SNK put his foot touch-in-goal and picked the ball up from in goal. The TJ/AR was right there and signalled a 22 restart/scrum downfield. The ref, who was some distance away, stopped play and conferred with the TJ/AR. Afer a moment's discussion the ref spoke to Waugh and took play back into the Saders half for a Tahs scrum.

The "moving ball near touch" (or touch-in-goal or dead-in-goal) was ballsed up a number of times last year, often to Australia's disadvantage. Hopefully there was some discussion among the elite reffing ranks and this time they got it right. Well done.
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Australian referee Matt Goddard has been stood down for at least a week. The man who handed out five yellow cards and one red during the Super 14 match between the Hurricanes and Bulls did not fare well in his official review.

After naming the match officials for this week's round of matches yesterday, New Zealand referees boss Lyndon Bray confirmed what everyone at Westpac Stadium last Friday already knew: Goddard got it wrong.

"Matt, by his own admission, put his hand up and said he got the balance wrong on the night," Bray said. "We all agreed he had clarity of what he wanted to achieve spot-on but, on review [of] some of the decisions, he was too technically minded in giving yellow cards for some of the offences."

In a refreshing move, the New Zealand Rugby Union's high-performance referees manager was happy to talk about Goddard's performance review.

Most fault was found in the sinbinning of Bulls openside Pedrie Wannenburg in the first half and of his Hurricanes opposite number Scott Waldrom just after halftime.

Although the review found both decisions had, technically, been penalty offences, neither had warranted a yellow card, Bray said.

"In reviewing that, he's accepted that he went too far with his punishment for those particular infringements ... he was too hard-nosed technically.

"We have decided it's best to stand down for the time being and Matt will go away and work out an action plan going forward."

Goddard has been bracketed to referee a match in a fortnight's time, but Bray said a decision would be made closer to the time.

"If we have signed off the review and he feels like he's in the right space, then he'll be back for that round."

Goddard accepted he would be criticised, but Bray urged people not to write off referees unfairly because of one "off-night".

"I think it's important to note that Matt was refereeing very well up to this point and, in fact, had been complimented in many quarters," Bray said. "One bad night at the office does not make him a bad referee."

The Hurricanes and Bulls will no doubt be glad to see that Goddard has been held accountable for a performance that frustrated players and coaches from both sides.

Perhaps more pleasing for the Hurricanes is that they have South Africa's Jonathan Kaplan, arguably the best referee in the competition, for Sunday's match against the Lions in Johannesburg.

Kaplan is one of three members of Sanzar's nine-man merit panel who will carry the whistle this weekend.

Interestingly, South African Mark Lawrence is also rested this week, despite high praise for his officiating of the free-flowing Chiefs-Blues match in Hamilton.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
Wow, the referees and the assistant referees are certainly showing us how not to manage a game.
This year we have seen the worst display ogf game management EVER.
Assistant referees are too quick to put that bloody little flag up and get their piece of air time. Time and time again we are seeing their annoying interference in games only to see the replay showing something totally different. Paul Marks - take a holiday.
This weekends displays have for me shown that the standard of refereeing has sunk to its lowest level yet these arrogant fools are kept on officiating the big games and costing teams legimate points.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Unfortunately rw, these are the actual best that can be provided. Refereeing is a pretty thankful task at all levels and not much is done to change that because the numbers are so low.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
As many here are aware, I am a ref and a referee coach so I am aware of the situation.
These referees actually are capable of far better performances however it certainly seems to me that they are disregarding all the basic training and adjudicating without going through their checklist.
There are some very basic refereeing mistakes happening and it is having a detrimental effect on the games.
backrowers unbinding, halfbacks menacing opposition half at the scrum, flankers obstructing halfbacks, offsides (lost count on that one).
The problem is they have forgotten their basic scanning techniques, have become ball fixated and miss the real action.
On top of that there must be a tremendous amount of pressure on them not to miss anything because the AR's are just jumping on anything that even starts to smell and are usually making a hash of their decision.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Yeah the assessors are part of the problem which goes right back up the chain to the Incompetent Rugby Bastards (or IRB). This system of sending out interpretations or specific points to look at dilutes a ref's purpose, which is to let the players work the game and not the refs.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
cyclopath said:
A question for the erudite ones here.
With a ruck formed, how can the "attacking" team have 2 players standing 2-3 feet in front of the ball, unbound to each other or anyone else and not be obstructing? Just saw it in the first few minutes of the Force / Brumbies. And if so, why the hell don't the other team just pummel them out of there?

Sorry for the delay - Law says - caught in or bound to -
 

Aussie D

Dick Tooth (41)
Does anyone know the rule concerning free kicks outside the 22? Are you allowed to kick the ball directly into touch, handing the lineout throw to the opposition where the ball crossses the line of touch or is it brought back to the point where you kick it from.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Aussie D said:
Does anyone know the rule concerning free kicks outside the 22? Are you allowed to kick the ball directly into touch, handing the lineout throw to the opposition where the ball crossses the line of touch or is it brought back to the point where you kick it from.
AFAIK you can kick it out, but do not get the throw
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top