Round 6 - Reds v Waratahs - Suncorp

[TSR]

I think we need to accept that it's beyond just the referees, the complaints about refereeing are a reflection of Rugby's overly complicated rule book, and the different rules WR (World Rugby) choose to have enforced or interpretated differently from time to time.

Yeah, but that wasn’t really the point of my post.

 

[Wilson]

Really enjoyed that game at the stadium, hard not to be happy watching the Reds spank the tahs. Crowd size was a bit disappointing, but understandable given the weather on the night, would absolutely have been playing on peoples minds after the last month. Hopefully it'll be much better next week with the spectacle a Reds v Brumbies game promises.

Still need to re-watch the game to get the full picture but I thought both Blyth and Smith got through a mountain of high quality work, Petaia is really growing into fullback and it's bloody great to have Tate back.

Also thought a few of the highly rated tahs from this season were found out, Harris in particular. He's been relying on Bell to do a lot of the work that would traditionally come an 8's way and he failed to step up and fill the void. The guy is a talent but he's got a fair way to go at this stage. Should probably be playing off the bench and focusing on ~30 minutes of impact and build from there.

 

[TSR]

With the unfortunate injury to Banks the Wallabies 15 jersey looking even more open.

I wonder if Jock Campbell might start suggesting to the S&C staff that Petaia could use a break.

 

[Adam84]

Yeah, but that wasn’t really the point of my post.

ok i thought you were talking about officiating

 

[Up the Guts]

Also thought a few of the highly rated tahs from this season were found out, Harris in particular. He's been relying on Bell to do a lot of the work that would traditionally come an 8's way and he failed to step up and fill the void. The guy is a talent but he's got a fair way to go at this stage. Should probably be playing off the bench and focusing on ~30 minutes of impact and build from there.

Definitely Harris’s quietest game, with a couple of brain explosions off the ball. Who were the other highly rated Tahs you thought were found out?

 

[Up the Guts]

With the unfortunate injury to Banks the Wallabies 15 jersey looking even more open.

I wonder if Jock Campbell might start suggesting to the S&C staff that Petaia could use a break.

Jock’s got a solid body of work over the last couple of seasons, I don’t think he needs to play a couple more games this year to push his case further.

My concern about fullback with Banks out is that they just automatically default to Hodge. I’d prefer both Reds fullbacks this year over him.

 

[Wilson]

Definitely Harris’s quietest game, with a couple of brain explosions off the ball. Who were the other highly rated Tahs you thought were found out?

Harris was the main one certainly, but I thought the bench had very little impact even with some of the usual starters on it. Edmed clearly a step down from Donaldson/Harrison too, but I don't think anyone was saying otherwise before the game.

Need to re-watch the game properly to get a full handle on it, but the vibe I got from the stadium was that in the 2nd half when the tahs were looking for players to step up and claw their way back into the game there wasn't really anyone who did.

 

[TSR]

ok i thought you were talking about officiating

Sorry, no - I was just trying to make the observation that Shiggins had found a way to reach a new high by jumping on the Reds v Tahs thread and commenting on the fact that it is not just RA/the Refs/all the other teams conspiring against the Force, but also the commentators.

 

[Overtime]

Really enjoyed that game at the stadium, hard not to be happy watching the Reds spank the tahs. Crowd size was a bit disappointing, but understandable given the weather on the night, would absolutely have been playing on peoples minds after the last month. Hopefully it'll be much better next week with the spectacle a Reds v Brumbies game promises.

Still need to re-watch the game to get the full picture but I thought both Blyth and Smith got through a mountain of high quality work, Petaia is really growing into fullback and it's bloody great to have Tate back.

Also thought a few of the highly rated tahs from this season were found out, Harris in particular. He's been relying on Bell to do a lot of the work that would traditionally come an 8's way and he failed to step up and fill the void. The guy is a talent but he's got a fair way to go at this stage. Should probably be playing off the bench and focusing on ~30 minutes of impact and build from there.

And Harry Wilson doesn't rely on TT, Uru, McWright among others. Harris was playing in a very under strength Waratahs pack. Not surprised he struggled last night. Wilson didn't really shine last night either in a pack that was close to full strength.

 

[TSR]

Jock’s got a solid body of work over the last couple of seasons, I don’t think he needs to play a couple more games this year to push his case further.

My concern about fullback with Banks out is that they just automatically default to Hodge. I’d prefer both Reds fullbacks this year over him.

I think Canpbell’s issue until now is that he has really been a fullback or nothing. Last year he wasn’t near as good on the wing. This year his wing play has been much better IMO. If he can also make a bit of play as a back up 10 then he has a much better chance of playing test rugby.

If I was picking a test side tomorrow and my choices were Hodge, Campbell & Petaia I would personally have Campbell in front - but I think Petaia is progressing nicely and he may well be first pick by the end of Super Rugby.

 

[Up the Guts]

I think Canpbell’s issue until now is that he has really been a fullback or nothing. Last year he wasn’t near as good on the wing. This year his wing play has been much better IMO. If he can also make a bit of play as a back up 10 then he has a much better chance of playing test rugby.

If I was picking a test side tomorrow and my choices were Hodge, Campbell & Petaia I would personally have Campbell in front - but I think Petaia is progressing nicely and he may well be first pick by the end of Super Rugby.

I think Campbell’s been allowed to play more of a roving wing role which is suiting his game a lot better.

I find it hard to go past some of Petaia’s defensive plays at 15. I’m not sure Campbell, Hodge, or Banks stop Mark from scoring that try (at least with a legal tackle). Ditto for his first game at fullback against the Drua when he drove the winger into touch 5m out from his own line. He’s still got things to work on but I think this could be his position long-term.

 

[TSR]

And Harry Wilson doesn't rely on TT, Uru, McWright among others. Harris was playing in a very under strength Waratahs pack. Not surprised he struggled last night. Wilson didn't really shine last night either in a pack that was close to full strength.

That’s fair - but I still think the observation is a reasonable one that Harris didn’t shine last night, so long as it is viewed from the right perspective. He is a young guy who is in his first season as a starter. His performance last night shouldn’t overly detract from what has been a very good season to date. I don’t personally think he needs to be benched for form, but it wouldn’t hurt him to get a rest at some point. Most young guys have trouble sustaining form over the course of a full pro season.

From an Aussie rugby perspective he still looks a great prospect - just needs some time.

 

[molman]

I really enjoyed that game, wet aside. This was a reasonably stacked Reds team vs. a rather green Tahs side/combo and it showed (yes I know LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) & Mafia are still out for the Red's.. but beyond them you'd have to call this close to their best team atm).

The interpt try was disappointing because the scoreline blew out. I think it would have been a interesting game if Tupou had been absent, he's really the key cog for this Reds team in both scrummaging dominance and making gain line in close. It would have been good to see if they could get it done minus his presence.

I'm liking the evolution of the Tah's skill work. The handling is stepping up, though they still arn't at that NZ team level of being able to perform it under fatigue, but the gains are positive.

I like Edmed, he's a really solid Rugby player, but he feels more like a future ball-palying 12 than a 10. I'd still have Donaldson and Harrison ahead of him. Generally speaking (besides that clear knock on) he's got good ball security, is strong into contact and is a reasonable distributor both left to right with a decent boot as well. There's no real weaknesses in his game, so the more time he gets at this level the better I think.

It will be interesting to see the injection of Hooper and Hanigan into this side and what they can bring in both consistency and quality. We have a feel for where Hooper is at, but Hanigan is hard to judge in the Japan comp.

 

[TSR]

I think Campbell’s been allowed to play more of a roving wing role which is suiting his game a lot better.

I find it hard to go past some of Petaia’s defensive plays at 15. I’m not sure Campbell, Hodge, or Banks stop Mark from scoring that try (at least with a legal tackle). Ditto for his first game at fullback against the Drua when he drove the winger into touch 5m out from his own line. He’s still got things to work on but I think this could be his position long-term.

He certainly isn’t going to get run over.

I always thought he looked a natural 13, but I agree he is doing lots of good stuff at the back.

He’s certainly answered the question as to whether he can kick (though does need to work on his consistency - seems good for at least one shank per game at the moment).

 

[Froggy]

Despite the protestations of Reg and other Reds fans, that was a Tahs side missing 8 of what might be called their top side. Having said that, I thought they put a pretty fair contest against a much better team, and the game was really only put out of their reach with Campbell's intercept. Their problem is really around concentration and decision making. Too many times a promising break ended in nothing due to a poor decision, they really didn't seem to know how to use their numbers advantage when they had it, and despite it becoming clear very early that the ref was going to be hard on the off-side, they just didn't seem to get it and kept infringing.

For the Reds, the two really outstanding players for me were TT and Tate. I know he has a few rough edges, but give me Tate over White any day. Their scrum was a real weapon, they have a world class back row, and it was clearly Petaia's best outing at 15. I feel very sorry for Campbell, IMO he was really in the contest to be Wallaby 15, but he won't be there as a wing. The Tahs did keep Stewart and Paisami quiet, and the Reds line-out was a train wreck.

For the Tahs, Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) had by far his best game at this level, and should hold that wing spot next week, and I thought Foketi outshone his more vaunted rival. Edmed had a very good game, although I still prefer Donaldson at this stage, and Sinclair is a real worker. Smith and Faulkner are a mile behind Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), which really showed up in the scrum, Harris had a quiet game, and Tizzano has plenty of energy but doesn't do a lot of thinking. Grant's skills are very good, but over the last two games he's made some very poor decisions.

Finally, does anyone know what happened to Harrison, and why he didn't come out in the second half? The commentators made no mention of it.

 

[TSR]

Shiggins isn’t a Reds fan Froggy. The only comment made by Reg was that the Reds weren’t full strength (Mafi, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Vunivalu would all be in our best 23, ASY (Angus Scott-Young) would be likely to cover lock).

 

[molman]

For the Reds, the two really outstanding players for me were TT and Tate. I know he has a few rough edges, but give me Tate over White any day. Their scrum was a real weapon, they have a world class back row, and it was clearly Petaia's best outing at 15. I feel very sorry for Campbell, IMO he was really in the contest to be Wallaby 15, but he won't be there as a wing. The Tahs did keep Stewart and Paisami quiet, and the Reds line-out was a train wreck.

I like Tate a lot, he is persistent eagerness, his passing has improved but he needs to still iron out a few little parts of his game. His kicking (box kicks in particular) are still a little off the international quality he's aiming for (White is categorically better) and he has some bad habits still around his distribution. Does this thing where he lifts and sets the ball before clearing the ruck. He's like a hooker doing a little balk at the lineout. He needs to cut it out.

 

[Froggy]

Well aware of Shiggin's allegiances TSR
My reference to Reg was a list of 6 players has advised were unavailable for the Reds, however I could add another 6 to the Tahs list if I were going to include players unlikely to be selected in the top 15.

 

[Wilson]

And Harry Wilson doesn't rely on TT, Uru, McWright among others. Harris was playing in a very under strength Waratahs pack. Not surprised he struggled last night. Wilson didn't really shine last night either in a pack that was close to full strength.

Certainly not to the degree that Harris does, he has the highest work rate of any 8 in Australia right now and always manages to find himself amongst it.

I don't think it's particularly controversial to suggest that the tahs have used bell in a lot of ways an 8 is traditionally used and that has meant there's been less requirement on Harris to play that role. It's been reflected in Harris' relatively low work rate across this season. More than anyone he needed to step up last night and deliver, and instead he had his worst game of the season.

Don't get me wrong, I do rate Harris and think he's a talent for the future, but he needs to find a way to impose himself on games and make sure he's contributing even when the big, flashy moments aren't there for him.

 

[Wilson]

Well aware of Shiggin's allegiances TSR
My reference to Reg was a list of 6 players has advised were unavailable for the Reds, however I could add another 6 to the Tahs list if I were going to include players unlikely to be selected in the top 15.

5 of "Reg's 6" would probably all have been selected in at least the 23 if not the 15 - It was the 1st and 2nd string hookers, a starting 6 and lock and an absolute weapon of a winger that everyone just wants to see take the field. The 6th is more of a toss up but he's a utility back who saw good game time last year and would probably be a better bench fit than Creighton, had he been available.