RWC 2015 Semi Final 2 - Australia v Argentina Twickenham, Monday 19 October, 2:45 AEDT

[jollyswagman]

Pretty much all average, with the exception of Uruguay which was very good (Kicking and Card dropping down from excellent) and Bledisloe II which was poor (Mostly due to Yellow Card which put Aus under the pump big time).

Not trying to argue this with you LE but it is worth noting that QC (Quade Cooper) was hammered in the forums for the yellow card in Bled 2, while not much was said about Genia's yellow card against Wales which put us equally under the pump.

 

[cyclopath]

Yep, sorry Dave. I should have taken a second to edit the part of the post I was expressing my agreement with, which was..



The point being I believe Cooper gets a much harder time from the pundits in here than Foley does..call it a double standard of sorts but I am fairly certain that I am not the only one who feels this way.

Fair enough.

 

[BDA]

The point being I believe Cooper gets a much harder time from the pundits in here than Foley does..call it a double standard of sorts but I am fairly certain that I am not the only one who feels this way.

I think what has been proven by this debate is that both Foley and Cooper have their supporters/detractors that will defend/attack a mixed bag performance from that player. The truth actually lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[EatSleepDrinkRuck]

I've been rewatching the Argentine v Eire game and noted the following which will likely impact the Wallabies' approach:

• The Argie structure is most of all consistent. It isn't groundbreaking or all that brilliant but it is done repeatedly and with minimal errors
• The Argie offloading is done somewhat wider in contact than say we saw with the Kiwi offloads against France
• The Argies had a fair amount of luck with bounce balls, 50/50 calls and passes sticking but the concern there is they are a team who have the cojones to go for those opportunities that result in luck
• The Argie scrum is strong but doesn't seem to apply the type of witchcraft that we saw Nels implement against Sio

What the Wallabies need to do in preparation:

• Inject bulk Cortisone into Izzy's Ankle
• Give the whole back row a bit of deep heat cream in their jocks to really fire them up - they are going to have to batter the Argie breakdown into submission
• Remind the tight five what they did to the English scrum
• Early bedtimes for everyone
• Cheika needs to remind himself that he is the boss and to sub with confidence, I sense some hesitation or self-doubt after the Pocock subbing & 13 on the field incident

The Wallabies should be the favourites at every betting facility but this is a world cup...

 

[jollyswagman]

For the bloody record......nobody is trying to make a case for Cooper in here. The conversation has stemmed from a debate about Foley's performance last week and morphed into an argument as to whether or not "the forum" treats both players equally or judges them by different standards. Some of us say there is no bias while others say there is.

We have another 6 long days to go so if we can't argue about this what on earth are we going to talk about?

 

[KOB1987]

I was surprised To'omua didn't come on too, but I get the impression Cheika does not see To'omua as finishing at 10, rather at 12, and for whatever reason, he didn't want to hook Giteau. Just my theory.

I just think that the plan was to get a bit of a lead and then get foley and giteau out of harms way and give cooper and To'omua a good run around together. As the former didn't happen neither did the latter. Same with hooper/McMahon


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[Braveheart81]

He had direct involvement in all those errors. Yes Mitchell was ALSO to blame but that doesn't mean you IGNORE Foley's direct involvements in making these errors which is exactly what you are doing.

Funny that you accuse posters of ignoring Coopers fault but you clearly do the same for Foley.

You have tried to justify every one of his errors but it doesn't change the fact THEY ARE ERRORS.

Mitchell has dropped two offloads with the tryline wide open in the RWC (other one from Beale in the Uruguay game). Maybe he needs to be more aware that if he's running a support line and calling for the ball, the ball will be passed to him.

It seems more like trying to argue that errors made by other people were Foley's error because he's the one that passed the ball. Were they bad passes or were the passes fine and the other player should have caught them?

Not trying to argue this with you LE but it is worth noting that QC (Quade Cooper) was hammered in the forums for the yellow card in Bled 2, while not much was said about Genia's yellow card against Wales which put us equally under the pump.

Genia's yellow card probably prevented a try.

Cooper's was a head high tackle and the try was scored anyway and would have almost certainly been scored regardless of what he did.

Surely those two yellow cards are chalk and cheese.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Marcello Bosch was only suspended for one game, and will be another big threat in the Pumas backline that wasn't there in their dismantling of the Oirish over the weekend.

 

[EatSleepDrinkRuck]

What about James Slipper at 10? He throws a mean second man pass for a try...

 

[Braveheart81]

OK. I'm done on the Cooper/Foley rubbish. Sorry for derailing the thread.

 

[jollyswagman]

Fair enough.

Just quoting you here to grab your attention Cyclo but I would be interested to hear your professional take on Sio's elbow......I don't expect you to provide a diagnosis by any stretch but would it be fair to assume that the heamatoma on his elbow is the byproduct of some major ligament damage? What else could that be symptomatic of???

 

[jollyswagman]

OK. I'm done on the Cooper/Foley rubbish. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Yep.....I am done too and promise to play nice.

 

[Ignoto]

As I spent my entire "playing" career in the bottom of rucks, I have no idea how the backs pass the ball.

The last couple of weeks has shown we've struggled against a fast rush defence. Knowing the playstyles of our two 10's; Foley, who stands deeper when waiting for the ball and Cooper who is meant to play better on a flat line.

What approach would work better for the rush defence?

Do you try and give your backs more room to get the ball wide to get around the rush? Or do you play flat and force the defence into making the wrong split second decision?

I have no doubt that Foley will be picked at 10, he's played well enough in the past to have the faith that Sunday was a hiccup. Just curious to know from those more educated in the prancing around in space.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ A box kick from the base of the ruck/maul or scrum can sometimes effective against a rush defence.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but another reason I think Cooper didn't get a run is because he's not in the top 23 and Cheika may be wanting to stick with the guys that will continue to play. Now of course if there are debilitating injuries then he will come in, but we all know that Folau was a precautionary omission and that allowed Cooper to suit up.

If Folau returns Cooper won't be in the 23 because Beale will go back to the bench. The Beale to wing suggestions seem off the planet to me. He was not selected to play wing. The squad already has a million wingers in it....

 

[EatSleepDrinkRuck]

I spent a 3 year stint with a nice hair cut and clean jersey in the backs and I can tell you that Foley will be better for the rush defence on the basis that he is steady and consistent. QC (Quade Cooper) would certainly beat the rushing defenders a few times with either magical steps or quad-cut outs to get outside the corner rusher but too often he'd get shotted behind the gain line.

I can't tell you what a relief it was to get back to hanging off a scrum and defending around the ruck or in cover.
Defending at 12/13 just sucks, you've got the 15 running an option while the 10 wraps and you're just trying to concentrate on lighting-up the Samoan 12 opposite you so he doesn't think he can Savea over the top of you all day.

 

[Jellic87]

I w

I spent a 3 year stint with a nice hair cut and clean jersey in the backs and I can tell you that Foley will be better for the rush defence on the basis that he is steady and consistent. QC (Quade Cooper) would certainly beat the rushing defenders a few times with either magical steps or quad-cut outs to get outside the corner rusher but too often he'd get shotted behind the gain line.

I can't tell you what a relief it was to get back to hanging off a scrum and defending around the ruck or in cover.
Defending at 12/13 just sucks, you've got the 15 running an option while the 10 wraps and you're just trying to concentrate on lighting-up the Samoan 12 opposite you so he doesn't think he can Savea over the top of you all day.

Haha! I would say that this is the most accurate description of life in the centres.......

 

[Slim 293]

^^^ A box kick from the base of the ruck/maul or scrum can sometimes effective against a rush defence.

Nic White SOS?

 

[cyclopath]

Just quoting you here to grab your attention Cyclo but I would be interested to hear your professional take on Sio's elbow..I don't expect you to provide a diagnosis by any stretch but would it be fair to assume that the heamatoma on his elbow is the byproduct of some major ligament damage? What else could that be symptomatic of???

Hard to say. It could be a haematoma in a muscle sheath, like a corked thigh for example, but from a muscle tear maybe not a direct blow. If it is secondary to tendon damage, I would think it is far more serious, where a minor muscle tear might be less so. In any event, I'll be amazed if he plays, given the way he was holding it going off.
That's my inexpert opinion!!

 

[Jellic87]

Hard to say. It could be a haematoma in a muscle sheath, like a corked thigh for example, but from a muscle tear maybe not a direct blow. If it is secondary to tendon damage, I would think it is far more serious, where a minor muscle tear might be less so. In any event, I'll be amazed if he plays, given the way he was holding it going off.
That's my inexpert opinion!!

Thanks for that! I'll be the first to admit i had no idea what we could expect when i was told haematoma on the elbow.

You'll all have to forgive my complete lack of knowledge with our front row situation, but is Slipper our best option as replacement?