School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[sidelineview]

An army of people know Australian rugby needs to attract more kids into playing the sport from a young age, the younger the better. The nurseries are schools and Club rugby.

Maybe only rugby playing students should be offered scholarship opportunities, not RL kids, but there shouldn't be barriers put up to stop suitable and talented young rugby players the opportunity of being part of a thriving private school rugby competition, within any Association.

It’s a better problem to have than seeing AFL posts going up all over the place. Collectively they’d make a good bonfire.

AFL is the scourge of school rugby; you could live with soccer but AFL has only fairly recently been introduced into Sydney schools, and traditionally strong rugby schools. The sport shouldn’t have been allowed in but I imagine we'd be getting into the ''equal opportunity'' ''political correctness'' debates because so many kids play AFL from an early age now and parents would want them to have that choice of playing aerial ping pong when entering Year 7.

I know where the schools should have stuck their equal opportunity policies. There were already enough choices of winter sports.

If State schools are eventually dragged into a revamped tiered Saturday Schools Competition further down the track then that would be ideal, but there's a lot of work to do before that happens.

 

[Black & White]

So again, you're suggesting that we shake up the current model by basically doing more of the same, but have this ratified by the ARU/state unions, at the largesse of school fee paying families and Federal funding? I think you'll find that you'll be seeing Aussie Rules at the Hawker Stand much quicker that way. I'm fairly sure that Shore view theirselves as a school with a proud history of producing champion sportsmen, as opposed to a place where sportsmen can sit their HSC. The scholarship situation is not something that can really be controlled.

Again, I'm not so sure that running any 'semi pro' schoolboy rugby competition would be compatible with a sustainable junior club competition, given that most kids go and play for their private schools from year 7, and any talented kids who go to state schools are already 'poached'.

You're also completely ignoring the players from 2nd XV downwards, whose parents pay school fees (to possibly subsidise those of the 1st XV), and who could form the lifeblood of Club and Subbies Rugby, and in turn could get a lifetime of enjoyment of the game. What does a semi pro comp achieve for them?

On the contrary, while Rome is burning too many are simply playing the fiddle. Nor do I ignore the 2ndXV or other teams. Newington's success in Rugby started at the top and filtered down to all teams and at all our age groups. Rugby is becoming more popular than it has been in years at Newington This debate I feel is between progressive forces ( Newington) and conservative ones(Shore). Time will tell us who is right.

 

[WLF]

Firstly, the avatar is Dave Graney.

Secondly, what you're suggesting is that the ARU 'growth model' should consist of expensive private schools driving growth. And you're telling me to look forwards not backwards.

Firstly I said Bryan Ferry look, as in look a like, but whatever.

Not sure why you think I said private schools driving growth, I never said that. I have always been in favour of a broader schools comp perhaps with several tiers, based on ability, and that certainly included the public school system, as well as ISA.

B&W, is right in my mind start thinking outside the box or start enjoying the game where you get 1 point for missing.

 

[I like to watch]

I have also suggested the Sports High and Club Rugby, are also vehicles of change.

So its not a matter resigning from the GPS, particularly as the other GPS schools follow the scholarship path and one at least and possibly two more so than Newington. The point that I am making is we need a vision of reform, not every person is going to accept it. Views will differ, but we need a vision that is not rooted in the past.

I have stated my vision, a semi-professional competition, that already exists in Brisbane. So Queensland GPS, there is very much on the road to American College style football. The other 5 Sydney GPS Schools are also moving in that direction. So in that regard it is Shore that stands alone.

I am sure Knox would be only too happy to replace Shore. Giving it an enhanced Social and Sporting status. Not that it needs it. As Knox have scholarships the, issue about scholarships could die very quickly, as a revamped pro-scholarship GPS would now move on.

Again, I emphasise that a code is at a crossroads how we deal with it, will vary enormously in terms of opinions. But we cannot afford to ignore that change is necessary. We must change, otherwise HB, as previously expressed,I trust you will enjoy either soccer or Aussie Rules from the Hawker Stand at Shore.

You know the idea is that kids play a bit of Rugby whilst at School, not that they attend School so that they can play Rugby?
Concentrating talent into very few Schools does not improve participation, which is what's needed.
You might be happy for junior to participate in 9 or 10 sessions a week, I think it's a ridiculous workload for kids in their final years of School.

 

[BAR]

Spot on ILTW! NRL and AFL are all over Rugby because they are winning hearts and minds. Today's sport is a numbers game and focussing on a semi-professional game in a tiny number of schools will do nothing to address that.

In terms of player development pathways, NRL beats out rugby for two reasons IMO. Firstly, it actively engages players when they are young. Selectors and development officers are looking at kids as early as 12 and 13 and asking them to enter development programs (they're not only waiting for players to self-nominate for a rep team trial). Imagine the impression on a 12 or 13 y.o. of coming off the field on Saturday after a club game and having an NRL selector/development officer ask if you want to be part of a development program (personal experience - he was thrilled).

Secondly, the development programs run by NRL clubs are not limited to a rep team squad. They run academies as well (eg. I understand that the Panthers work with a 4 team U14 squad over a period of time before moving to rep team selection), allowing for a larger number of players to get exposure to extra coaching and skills etc. Again, put your 13y.o. head on and consider the difference in experience if you were to be selected into the Eastwood/Gordon/Warringah Rugby Academy before unfortunately missing the rep team as opposed to the current model of simply not making the cut for the rep squad despite being a very talented player.

If rugby doesn't offer opportunities to develop talent broadly within the sport the kids who want that opportunity and can't find it will go looking for a sport that will. (That's not to say we should go the way of soccer which seems to make every second player a "rep" player)

 

[sidelineview]

You're right, so the rugby governing bodies need to pull their fingers out and get working.
It's never too late.

This is a good start.

From the Australian Schools Rugby website
FIRST NATIONAL SCHOOLS RUGBY FORUM–DETAILS
byASRUonJune 13, 2017inNews
Australian National Schools Rugby Forum–8th and 9th December 2017 - Sydney
………………………………………………….
………………………………………………. etc
Key Considerations
–that there be a wide range of participants from all school sectors—State, Catholic, Private.

………………………………………………………………… etc

 

[Black & White]

You know the idea is that kids play a bit of Rugby whilst at School, not that they attend School so that they can play Rugby?
Concentrating talent into very few Schools does not improve participation, which is what's needed.
You might be happy for junior to participate in 9 or 10 sessions a week, I think it's a ridiculous workload for kids in their final years of School.

A well organised study programme for the HSC can prevent an excessive workload for HSC study. I know, I was a teacher and planned study programs for 1st XV players in Country Schools. If your boys are suffering from excessive study overload, it s more due poor organisation within the school or faculty concerned.

Please read the article again, I do not suggest we concentrate all talent into an elite competition. Rather, we have a series of elite competitions, such as the Sports High Competition. Additionally, I have also advocated bring in the MCC schools for Rugby, to add to the depth of Australian School Boy Rugby

However, both these elite Rugby Development programs would, I suspect offend the fee paying Private School North Shore Purists, as the focus of Rugby is likely to move away from the North Shore to Western Sydney. I refer to one blogger ( That I actually respect), who mentioned a Kings Player and made the point he was from Mount Druid, so what if he is from that suburb. A totally unnecessary comment, my friend,with the reference to this young man.

Nor at any stage have I advocated a Rugby only policy. Again, read my article
The theme I placing emphasis upon, is the survival and expansion of the code at schoolboy level, a fact, we as a code must come to grips with and too little is being done about it.

As Alan Jones commented on this predicament last week, with a reference "It is pointless to commit all resources to the roof and ignore the floor". Clearly he is not a supporter of the current leadership of the ARU.

 

[Short Ball]

An army of people know Australian rugby needs to attract more kids into playing the sport from a young age, the younger the better. The nurseries are schools and Club rugby.

Maybe only rugby playing students should be offered scholarship opportunities, not RL kids, but there shouldn't be barriers put up to stop suitable and talented young rugby players the opportunity of being part of a thriving private school rugby competition, within any Association.

It’s a better problem to have than seeing AFL posts going up all over the place. Collectively they’d make a good bonfire.

AFL is the scourge of school rugby; you could live with soccer but AFL has only fairly recently been introduced into Sydney schools, and traditionally strong rugby schools. The sport shouldn’t have been allowed in but I imagine we'd be getting into the ''equal opportunity'' ''political correctness'' debates because so many kids play AFL from an early age now and parents would want them to have that choice of playing aerial ping pong when entering Year 7.

I know where the schools should have stuck their equal opportunity policies. There were already enough choices of winter sports.

If State schools are eventually dragged into a revamped tiered Saturday Schools Competition further down the track then that would be ideal, but there's a lot of work to do before that happens.

I don't think a schools model (no matter how you create it) is a viable option for Rugby's survival, especially in the long run. Most, if not all non-private/non-sports high schools, have the resources to cater for an elite rugby program. It's more then just the boys; the gym for S&C (which is extremely important in the modern game), pools for recovery etc.

The reality is that a proper age-based tiered club system needs to be developed, with proper elite programs. 99% of junior club teams train once a week, don't do any conditioning work and to be frank, is social rugby. Perhaps expanding the current representative system to include weekly games, and a structured professional program that mirrors it's grade counterparts.

 

[bigmac]

So Kings import a monster 15 year old League player from Mt Druitt, and you think that's ok?

Are You are aware of the sporting Code of Practice all AAGPS schools have agreed and signed?

It's wrong and Shore are right to call them out and refuse to play them.

You do you mean the Means justifies the End? (think that is arse about)

It's game of sport, not even part of any official competition.

Why should any team have play against a deliberately stacked team? Where the result is going to be a thrashing at best or some kid seriously injured at worst.

Black and white get a grip on it. How about promoting a fair contest between young boys.

Best post i have seen here for a while.
Kudos to you sir.

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[Black & White]

Best post i have seen here for a while.
Kudos to you sir.

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Provided you accept social intolerance and the exclusion for anybody from Western Sydney to achieve in Rugby Union. Quite clearly, the moral compass possessed by some members, is somewhat bankrupt.

It makes me proud that a tolerant education of inclusion, egalitarianism and acceptance was taught to me at Newington. To degenerate a 14 year old boy, who cannot defend himself says more about you "Bigmac" as a man, a person and as a sportsman, than about this talented young man.

If Joey was a person of colour, this site would be closed down in an instance. I hope the moderators can bring some sense to the debate. For me, such intolerance is sickening and not reflective of our Australian Culture. No wonder our game is in a mess.

 

[WLF]

Provided you accept social intolerance and the exclusion for anybody from Western Sydney to achieve in Rugby Union. Quite clearly, the moral compass possessed by some members, is somewhat bankrupt.

It makes me proud that a tolerant education of inclusion, egalitarianism and acceptance was taught to me at Newington. To degenerate a 14 year old boy, who cannot defend himself says more about you "Bigmac" as a man, a person and as a sportsman, than about this talented young man.

If Joey was a person of colour, this site would be closed down in an instance. I hope the moderators can bring some sense to the debate. For me, such intolerance is sickening and not reflective of our Australian Culture. No wonder our game is in a mess.

B&W,

Relax I agree with you completely, go and have a glass of red, reality can be dodged, but only for a while.

I am sure in Willy Wonker land everything is wonderful and fair.
Truth is, as we all well know, it isn't and doesn't work that way.

Bottom line is things are what they are, they will not change, so we need to do whatever it takes, without being stupid, so go with it and use it to your own advantage, or drown, because the real life agendas, AFL and Soccer would LOVE to kills us off ASAP.

Sounds harsh, and it is, so we need to address it.

Funny thing is we all agree this happening but our respective responses are quite different.

 

[Black & White]

B&W,

Relax I agree with you completely, go and have a glass of red, reality can be dodged, but only for a while.

I am sure in Willy Wonker land everything is wonderful and fair.
Truth is, as we all well know, it isn't and doesn't work that way.

Bottom line is things are what they are, they will not change, so we need to do whatever it takes, without being stupid, so go with it and use it to your own advantage, or drown, because the real life agendas, AFL and Soccer would LOVE to kills us off ASAP.

Sounds harsh, and it is, so we need to address it.

Funny thing is we all agree this happening but our respective responses are quite different.

Thanks WLF, sometimes our passion gets the better of us. I shall walk away from commenting any further on this particular topic. Instead, I shall confine my comments to schoolboy rugby games. I also apologise to both Honey Badger and Big Mac for my comments as I truly believed this boy was being victimised. My background as a Teacher has produced a protective outlook which can be very intense. I suspect your comments were not to be interpreted, in the manner I did.

Regards

B&W

 

[WLF]

Thanks WLF, sometimes our passion gets the better of us. I shall walk away from commenting any further on this particular topic. Instead, I shall confine my comments to schoolboy rugby games.

Yep, we can all suffer from this because we all care.

I suggest you open the cork and dive into it, can't lose!

 

[The Honey Badger]

B&W, please tell me what is TKS motivation in offering a sponsored place at the school to a gifted RL player?

 

[rugboy]

B&W, please tell me what is TKS motivation in offering a sponsored place at the school to a gifted RL player?

HB, what defines this 13/14 year old as a "RL player"? Given the young man recently lead Eastwood to the 14s State champs in Orange I could only assume that he is a young man that enjoys both codes, yet you have him slated as a "RL player".

 

[The Honey Badger]

HB, what defines this 13/14 year old as a "RL player"? Given the young man recently lead Eastwood to the 14s State champs in Orange I could only assume that he is a young man that enjoys both codes, yet you have him slated as a "RL player".

Did he play any rugby before attending TKS?

Not that that matters.

As to answer my own question as no one else wants to.

The motivation for TKS is to bring in a player to strengthen the age group and win games, with the ultimate objective of a GPS premiership in 2019 or 2020.

Don't think too much thought about the transfer of talent from RL to Rugby for the benefit of the code.

Don't actually think too much thought about the benefit for the individual. Just all about TKS gaining an advantage on the sporting field at any cost.

 

[bigmac]

Did he play any rugby before attending TKS?

Not that that matters.

As to answer my own question as no one else wants to.

The motivation for TKS is to bring in a player to strengthen the age group and win games, with the ultimate objective of a GPS premiership in 2019 or 2020.

Don't think too much thought about the transfer of talent from RL to Rugby for the benefit of the code.

Don't actually think too much thought about the benefit for the individual. Just all about TKS gaining an advantage on the sporting field at any cost.

I thought kings headmaster had abandoned poaching or importing and was focussed on more balanced education ie outside of winning premierships.

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[Freddo Frog]

I thought kings headmaster had abandoned poaching or importing and was focussed on more balanced education ie outside of winning premierships.

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Then by some other lucky chance, they have attracted several extremely strong players in the 14's and 15's, most, if not all, of whom play rep in both league and union. One very proud grandad informed me his grandson was boarding there because he had been given a rugby scholarship...'but we have to call it a leadership scholarship'

 

[The Honey Badger]

I thought kings headmaster had abandoned poaching or importing and was focussed on more balanced education ie outside of winning premierships.

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I think that is the brief given to the new Head Master

 

[axel]

Then by some other lucky chance, they have attracted several extremely strong players in the 14's and 15's, most, if not all, of whom play rep in both league and union. One very proud grandad informed me his grandson was boarding there because he had been given a rugby scholarship.'but we have to call it a leadership scholarship'

In the 14's I think Kings only have 1 boy playing both union and league ( i may be proven wrong there), and he is as good as it gets. There are some other good players in the team, but without this one kid, they would be just another team. I hope he continues playing rugby as long as possible, as I know every boy he plays against relishes the opportunity to test themsleves. My son doesnt care that these boys may or may not have scholarships when he plays them......lets just hope none of them are lost to rugby at all.