School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Spieber]

These are the types that can be missed by the arms race in school rugby - late developers.

https://rugbynews.net.au/dan-poletto-relatively-unknown-no-10-leading-sydney-uni-revival/

 

[Brumby Jack]

A general warning for all after recent posts.

Lift your game or there will be more than just deleted posts handed out.

 

[Sparkle Motion]

These are the types that can be missed by the arms race in school rugby - late developers.

https://rugbynews.net.au/dan-poletto-relatively-unknown-no-10-leading-sydney-uni-revival/

This is a great story and reinforces how some of the cultures of identifying "talent" early are built on poor foundations, given how some flourish outside of those systems, and many within those systems don't make it. That applies to most sports I've been involved with.

Hopefully not too off-topic but this talk about identifying junior talent in NZ and the traits of successful players is very interesting. It draws from several junior rugby examples and should the compulsory viewing for (over)aspirational parents!

 

[Sully]

A general warning for all after recent posts.

Lift your game or there will be more than just deleted posts handed out.

I've already started handing out points. They have had plenty of chances to clean up this thread. Some of the comments would have got them instantly banned with other mods.

 

[sidelineview]

Its a very contentious issue but it can be argued its a necessary evil to see more rugby players attend private schools (public schools arent in the race anymore) and hopefully pursue rugby post school.
As long as its not in the name of ambition/competitiveness for individual schools. More for the purpose of providing opportunities to genuine contenders.
Strengthening a school 1st XV team should be a flow on bonus.

Sounds good in theory but who regulates it?

 

[formerflanker]

As long as its not in the name of ambition/competitiveness for individual schools.

Sounds good in theory but who regulates it?

All sporting scholarships are designed to make the school likely to win the top grade (say rugby or basketball). That success brings prestige and more enrolments to the school. Any other stated motive is just window dressing.
The regulation aspect is more honoured in its absence than its application, especially in GPS schools.

The bottom line is that private schools are not beholden to a code (rugby), they exist at the whim of "customers" (parents) and "stakeholders" (old boy financial contributors).
Winning teams in high profile sports adds a lustre to the attraction for both customers and stakeholders.

The good of grassroots or representative rugby is completely immaterial to the schools.

 

[Brian Westlake]

And here I am still waiting to find out who Junge is.

 

[sidelineview]

All sporting scholarships are designed to make the school likely to win the top grade (say rugby or basketball). That success brings prestige and more enrolments to the school. Any other stated motive is just window dressing.
The regulation aspect is more honoured in its absence than its application, especially in GPS schools.

The bottom line is that private schools are not beholden to a code (rugby), they exist at the whim of "customers" (parents) and "stakeholders" (old boy financial contributors).
Winning teams in high profile sports adds a lustre to the attraction for both customers and stakeholders.

The good of grassroots or representative rugby is completely immaterial to the schools.

You've just crushed my faith in human nature and my ideological view of how it should be.

 

[Quick Hands]

Scholarships can provide opportunities for students who otherwise wouldn't attend private schools in Australia and end up playing the game. That's a good thing. Australian rugby has benefited from the Joeys school providing opportunities.

But I wouldn't have thought that boys moving from Trinity to Waverley would fit into this category though.

 

[sidelineview]

But I wouldn't have thought that boys moving from Trinity to Waverley would fit into this category though.

I dont have details of this. Can you fill me in?

 

[WLF]

But I wouldn't have thought that boys moving from Trinity to Waverley would fit into this category though.

Agree with that QH, moving from 1 good school to another simply for rugby or whatever sport reason is clearly just for the sport.It has nothing to do with receiving a far better education.

In the case you mentioned the move was as a result of not being wanted by the old school anymore, so it's a lot different to being poached, I think you would agree.

 

[Quick Hands]

Those on these threads who think that recruiting talent (through bursaries, scholarships or other means) into a very small pool of private schools is a good thing for rugby, then have a look at the Australian 20s selected to play Fiji.

There is NOT ONE BOY in the squad who went to a comprehensive state high school. Every single player has gone to a GPS/CAS/AIC/ISA school (i.e. a private school) or to a state sports high school (NSW).

The kid from Randwick Boys' High (who isn't in the aquad) is the only one from outside a very narrow elite of schools.

If people want to know why rugby has a problem - then look at this team. A generation ago there would have been a 50/50 split between state and private.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Those on these threads who think that recruiting talent (through bursaries, scholarships or other means) into a very small pool of private schools is a good thing for rugby, then have a look at the Australian 20s selected to play Fiji.

There is NOT ONE BOY in the squad who went to a comprehensive state high school. Every single player has gone to a GPS/CAS/AIC/ISA school (i.e. a private school) or to a state sports high school (NSW).

The kid from Randwick Boys' High (who isn't in the aquad) is the only one from outside a very narrow elite of schools.

If people want to know why rugby has a problem - then look at this team. A generation ago there would have been a 50/50 split between state and private.

Not helped by the absence of a super 20s this year where post school developers might get a chance - particularly at the brumbies, force and possibly rebels. Too hard.

 

[Quick Hands]

Not helped by the absence of a super 20s this year where post school developers might get a chance - particularly at the brumbies, force and possibly rebels. Too hard.

Shute Shield now the only place - there's a kid playing firsts for Uni this week who didn't make any of those junior/school rep teams

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Shute Shield now the only place - there's a kid playing firsts for Uni this week who didn't make any of those junior/school rep teams

The 10?
Played 3rds colts too.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Shute Shield now the only place - there's a kid playing firsts for Uni this week who didn't make any of those junior/school rep teams

And Uni have a reputation for developing players. And this is why Uni attract so many good players.

Would the same player get to the same level if he played at another club?

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[sidelineview]

And Uni have a reputation for developing players. And this is why Uni attract so many good players.

Would the same player get to the same level if he played at another club?

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

Yes; probably. He's a late developer and good luck to him.

 

[sidelineview]

It's no surprise State Schools aren't producing rugby players. They dont play the game anymore as they did years ago.
This has been discussed at length. The horse bolted years ago and it's going to take a lot of work to regain any part of the lost ground.

Private schools produce the rugby players and the opportunities. Some are more expensive than others.
It's a unique and enjoyable experience for students to make their 1st XV team, steeped in so much history; and play in a quality competition on magnificent grounds in front of big crowds with chanting schoolboy supporters etc etc.
It's a privilege for these players and can be so enjoyable it can sway them to pursue rugby post school.
If they can win a comp and get their team photo on a wall of honour and/or make higher Rep honours, its a bonus.

I like the stories of Kurtley Beale and Tristan Reilly getting an opportunity through Joeys. I'd like to hear about more players who have received similar opportunities.

I like the stories of schoolboys who could have easily gone to league but decided to play rugby post school.
There will be more, but off the top of my head some players who played league or played both Club rugby and league and ended up playing rugby are:
Brooklyn Hardaker - Waverley/Junior Roosters/Easts
Tom Fuller; Tyzac Jordan & Jackson Mohi - Waverley/Junior Roosters/Randwick.
There are more players who had played a lot of league but decided to play rugby with their mates post school.
None of the above were on a scholarship.

Private schools is where it's at for schoolboy rugby. It is what it is.
The scholarship/recruitment thing can be overdone and abused like anything else but it can also provide opportunities.

 

[WLF]

It's no surprise State Schools aren't producing rugby players. They dont play the game anymore as they did years ago.
This has been discussed at length. The horse bolted years ago and it's going to take a lot of work to regain any part of the lost ground.

Private schools produce the rugby players and the opportunities. Some are more expensive than others.
It's a unique and enjoyable experience for students to make their 1st XV team, steeped in so much history; and play in a quality competition on magnificent grounds in front of big crowds with chanting schoolboy supporters etc etc.
It's a privilege for these players and can be so enjoyable it can sway them to pursue rugby post school.
If they can win a comp and get their team photo on a wall of honour and/or make higher Rep honours, its a bonus.

I like the stories of Kurtley Beale and Tristan Reilly getting an opportunity through Joeys. I'd like to hear about more players who have received similar opportunities.

I like the stories of schoolboys who could have easily gone to league but decided to play rugby post school.
There will be more, but off the top of my head some players who played league or played both Club rugby and league and ended up playing rugby are:
Brooklyn Hardaker - Waverley/Junior Roosters/Easts
Tom Fuller; Tyzac Jordan & Jackson Mohi - Waverley/Junior Roosters/Randwick.
There are more players who had played a lot of league but decided to play rugby with their mates post school.
None of the above were on a scholarship.

Private schools is where it's at for schoolboy rugby. It is what it is.
The scholarship/recruitment thing can be overdone and abused like anything else but it can also provide opportunities.

Agree Sideline, with the winning examples that you have outlined,

But it does need to broaden.

Someone, my guess is the ARU, but more than happy to be corrected with the right answer.

A business plan needs to be developed, that is more compelling than other codes, to ensure the best, and more players engage, and it filters down to the grass roots.I have said it before, so I guess it's just frustration that brings it up again.

Buts it is fact.

 

[sidelineview]

Agree Sideline, with the winning examples that you have outlined,

But it does need to broaden.

Someone, my guess is the ARU, but more than happy to be corrected with the right answer.

A business plan needs to be developed, that is more compelling than other codes, to ensure the best, and more players engage, and it filters down to the grass roots.I have said it before, so I guess it's just frustration that brings it up again.

Buts it is fact.

It is what it is.
If schools and clubs dont take the initiative who will?

The scholarship/recruitment debate shouldn't be split into two camps: Pro scholarship vs Anti scholarship.
The Hatfields and McCoys.
Some posters on this thread have obviously seen the ugly side of the issue but throwing a blanket over it isnt the answer.

Each case of scholarships/recruitment/opportunity offered by schools should be taken on its merits.
Trinity has granted scholarships to students for years and have given opportunities to talented footy playing kids from public schools, who wouldn't have otherwise played rugby. That deserves a tick.
I wont name names but i can think of two league players who went to Trinity. One returned to league and the other one pursued rugby post school.