Stormers vs Waratahs Round 10 @ Newlands

[ChargerWA]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Holloway and Robinson in the Wallaby initial training squad.

And Horne on a wing. With Joe out and Cheika being a fan.

 

[tragic]

It's not for the referee to call that he would've missed if he'd kept his feet. Nor does it seem plausible, unless he has the super power of vaporization. The slip was thus a red herring and was rightly ignored, as it would be if you slip in a lifting tackle and accidentlally dump the player on his head.

He doesn't have to miss. They can collide full tilt and both land in a dangerous position provided both were in a realistic position to catch the ball - which they were until he slipped.
So take your herring back and use it to cut down the mightiest tree in the Forrest.

 

[ChargerWA]

He doesn't have to miss. They can collide full tilt and both land in a dangerous position provided both were in a realistic position to catch the ball - which they were until he slipped.
So take your herring back and use it to cut down the mightiest tree in the Forrest.

Only one player landed on their head. That is the relevant fact.

 

[tragic]

Only one player landed on their head. That is the relevant fact.

Eh?? That's got nothing whatsoever to do with anything.
Let's go with the established laws and not invent new ones.

 

[fatprop]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Holloway and Robinson in the Wallaby initial training squad.

And Horne on a wing. With Joe out and Cheika being a fan.

I do get impressed with players who look safe, calm and appear to have plenty of time. Holloway and Robinson both seem to have that and pace

Horne did a lot of work in that inside runner channel with the ball and without it, a pretty good effort

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[Pfitzy]

Looking at the clip again, that Stormers winger was trying to take off in the space Foley already occupied - as I stated earlier, even if he hadn't slipped, he was going to take Foley out in the air.

Don't need to invent a Law for that. Its reckless at a minimum, dangerous in the extreme, even if its not malicious.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I do get impressed with players who look safe, calm and appear to have plenty of time. Holloway and Robinson both seem to have that and pace

Yeah I like the look of that Holloway. Could be a real missing link for a Wallabies squad that has been searching for just decent hard playing locks.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Looking at the clip again, that Stormers winger was trying to take off in the space Foley already occupied - as I stated earlier, even if he hadn't slipped, he was going to take Foley out in the air.

Don't need to invent a Law for that. Its reckless at a minimum, dangerous in the extreme, even if its not malicious.

Not sure Nick. Foley jumped forward so it wasn't as if he was occupying that space before his opponent.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That was a great performance from the Tahs and a win well earned. Kurtley had a fantastic game at 12 and has to be in the frame there for the England series. I think he and Horne would come as a package deal though, with Horne to defend in the 12 channel. KB (Kurtley Beale)'s front on defence isn't international standard IMHO. That said, every other part of his game is and his understanding with Foley is just excellent these days. We saw a glimpse of what Izzy can offer at 13 as well, with that fantastically well worked try in the first half. I still like him at fullback but he can at least provide some cover. Holloway just keeps going from strength to strength. I've been a fan since I saw him playing for Souths and think he has plenty to offer the Wallabies in due course.

 

[Groucho]

He doesn't have to miss. They can collide full tilt and both land in a dangerous position provided both were in a realistic position to catch the ball - which they were until he slipped.
So take your herring back and use it to cut down the mightiest tree in the Forrest.

Nah, that would require the ref to rule that he would've jumped and competed if he hadn't slipped. My herring is ecky.

These kinds of predictive complexities are why these situations don't require intention. If you get them in a dangerous position, whether deliberately or not, and they land on their head, then that's an automatic red. Slip, g-string or Y-fronts notwithstanding.

The ref is correct on the laws. The Internet is wrong. It had to happen eventually.

 

[galumay]

The red card was the correct call by the rules, but no doubt it had a significant impact on the game - 26 mins a man down is always going to be very tough.

A couple of things i noted, Skelton had his best run of the season - not saying a lot but it was a step change, his work at the breakdown in particular. Reece Robinson is really coming along nicely as is Kellaway. Beale is turning into Mr Reliable. Its more obvious now how much we missed Foley early in the year.

Its a long way to the end of the season, but the Tah's are travelling quite nicely with not many injury worries in key positions and hitting a bit of mid season form.

They still look a fair way off the NZ teams in terms of instensity & accuracy, but they are at least heading in the right direction - whenever you beat one of the better SA sides at home you know you are doing OK.

 

[Froggy]

Very pleasing result from a team that keeps improving. The sort of thing we have seen from the backs in the last fortnight is exactly what they've been trying to do previously, but without the execution. I don't think the Stormers are a great side, but they are a hard-working one that will punish your mistakes.

I think Kellaway, Holloway and Robertson are really growing into Super Rugby standard, but while I like Roach's work rate, the difference in the scrum when Taf came on shows he still has a long way to go. I think Dean Mumm is approaching his use-by date, and it's time to have a look at Hanigan.

I stiil don't think we will make the finals, too many NZ sides to play, but my scenario from another thread that this is a side gradually improving and developing young players looks to be coming to fruition.

As to the Red, I would have called it a a Yellow, I think it was a genuine attempt at the ball, albeit a careless one. I don't buy the 'he was looking at the ball' arguement, Conrad Smith was guilty (twice) last year of just charging in under Folau with no attempt to catch the ball, but clever enough to look up while he did it to argue his case with the ref (typical lawyer!).

 

[Hawko]

They still look a fair way off the NZ teams in terms of instensity & accuracy, but they are at least heading in the right direction - whenever you beat one of the better SA sides at home you know you are doing OK.

I think a lot of people are looking at the game with the glass half empty, mainly because they are terrified that the Tahs wk 1-5 are just a moment away.Thinking back to then its hard to imagine that Jeremy Tilse and Angus Ta'avao could take a tight head off the under-8's, let alone the best scrum in South Africa.

People have got so much baggage when it comes to Kurtley Beale that he really hasn't had enough credit for his play this year. He held the attacking line together while Foley was out and you can see the class that Foley, Folau and he bring to the table. The backline moves that took de Allende apart were so pretty to watch and there were so many alternatives. When Folau scored on the cut Kellaway was flying on the outside and Kurtley could have used Folau as the dummy and put Kellaway away, probably for the same result. Beale is so far in front of the next best Australian 12 that I think To'omua will be riding the pine this year.

There is still a lot of improvement required in the forwards but they've got another two weeks before the Crusaders in Christchurch. Both Skelton and Mumm were better this week, brain farts aside, and everyone was committed. I would keep Mumm at 6 and have Dempsey on the bench because Mumm delivers a whole lot more grunt than Jack. His time will come. Taf must start now though, his scrummaging is worth his weight in gold and Latu will have to show some form before he gets his bench spot back.

And on the red card. It was exactly the right decision. Last week a Highlander did it after 20 mins and that was tough. This week it was with only 25 minutes left (the rough equivalent of back to back yellows) and it was a winger. If anyone is going to get carded you want it to be a winger because that's the easiest position to cover. The red card was not a game breaker, you could hardly tell the difference in the Stormers pre and post the card. Now for the lottery that is the judiciary.

Today is a really good day to be a Waratah fan!

 

[barbarian]

One of the big improvements this week was getting go-forward in tight. Having TPN back helped with that, but Skelton, Holloway, Robertson and Dennis all frequently made the advantage line, often with one or two blokes driving them from behind.

It was a pleasant return to the Chieka days, and gave KB (Kurtley Beale) and co the space to create chances.
.

 

[Monty Python]

Very pleasing result from a team that keeps improving.

I think Kellaway, Holloway and Robertson are really growing into Super Rugby standard, but while I like Roach's work rate, the difference in the scrum when Taf came on shows he still has a long way to go.

Roach's profile on the Tah's website has him at 101 kilograms in 2015. Can that still be right? Surely not heavy enough for a hooker in super rugby, nor matter how mobile. Also had some wayward lineout throws while he was on - one leading to a Stormers try.

 

[Pfitzy]

Good enough = heavy enough.

Besides: for a hooker, anything around 100kg isn't even a talking point

 

[ChargerWA]

Poor old Hugh cops the attention but he was the fall guy for Paddy.

Gibson knew that he couldn't unleash Tilse that early, as he isn't normally a better scrummager than Ryan. So his only option to try and sure things up he had to unleash the best scrummaging hooker in Aus rugby. And it worked.

With quality props, Roach is plenty heavy enough to hold his own.

 

[Groucho]

The Tahs actually have chances from here. They just have to keep improving to secure a finals spot, and then it's whoever's the best team on the days.

 

[ForceFan]

I reckon Holloway has heaps of potential and is a strong ball carrier and looks like a good Line Out option.
However he needs to work hard on other aspects of his game.

Surely a Wallaby No 8 needs to be reasonably active in more than ball carrying?

Holloway is averaging only 14 Total Ruck Involvements (12 Attack/2 Defence) per 80 mins and 7 Tackles. He has earned only 1 TOW in 8 games.
(He had 9 Ruck Involvements (9A/0D) against the Stormers (9A/0D).

Compare these numbers with someone like Adam Thomson: 30 Total (20A/10D) and 9 Tackles. He's earned 11 TOW in 8 games

Or even McCalman: 24 Total (18A/6D) and 6 Tackles. But only 2 TOW in 8 games.

Jack Dempsey is averaging 22 Total (15A/7D) and 6 Tackles with 6TOW in 7 games.

Kieran Reid had 30 Total (19A/11D) in the RWC Final and averaged 26T (20A/6D) in the RWC.

Someone has to put in the hard yards in defence in Tests and over the past 2 years it hasn't been our Front Rowers and very few of our Locks.

 

[Groucho]

ForceFan, I don't agree. The team decides who is going to play on the ball, and off the ball, and when. Holloway plays consistently in the wide channels, not because he's a 'seagull' but because he's deliberately positioned there. He doesn't 'have' to do anything like what you say. He might be assigned to in the future. Or he might not. Currently the Waratahs have other players performing that work.