The case for Anthony Fainga'a to wear the Green and Gold

[qwerty51]

This thread is turning into the why is Tom Carter unpickable one.

 

[Athilnaur]

Qwerty - Only because most discussions about Fainga'a / defense inevitably bring TC into the discussions. Facts are Fainga'a is in the squad, TC isn't. Had this been a non RWC year it might have been the other way round, but it isn't. Add Fainga'a's experience playing alongside QC (Quade Cooper)/Genia.

I still think McCabe is the better choice, and the AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) stats (and for that matter the JOC (James O'Connor) stats to a lesser extent) just go to show stats are only part of the story when it comes to big games esp where players play multiple positions over the year. Anyone who under-rates AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is mad imo and yet his Super Rugby stats are woeful in work rate sense. Team, position, how player fits into Coach strat, variables are endless.

As for Tom Carter, his work ethic speaks for itself. He has the potential to be great IMO, but will require some hard work on passing. Won't ever make a winger tho

Back on topic - like others here I am concerned that we don't have strong defenders at IC. Its a channel for the opposition. In a RWC that could prove the weak link in our chain. If thats AF great, but my money is on McCabe.

 

[Lee Grant]

...But Henry reasserted his tough love attitude around Fruean. "Everybody sees Robbie as a very explosive player with the ball, but at this level you've got to have a huge work rate, a kick-chase game, work hard to get in the right defensive positions and make tons of tackles and get tons of touches. Robbie is a player of the future and has some real attributes but at this level you just can't afford not to have work rate."

Athilnaur - Thanks for posting that quote from Henry; very interesting indeed. Henry would have factored in that Freuen had every opportunity to do that stuff with the Crusaders as opposed to somebody who was behind a poor pack or with ball delivered by poor halves.

All of those elements are important to most back positions as are the more general attributes of diligence, alertness and adding value to team mates - but it's good to hear it from the mouth of a top coach like Henry.

I think the lack of work rate has counted against Sivivatu also, and that his reported lack of fitness is not the only reason he is on a warning.

 

[Scotty]

McCabe doesn't tackle as hard? I don't believe that...

And a lot of players don't have provincial combinations with Cooper... what does that have to do with anything?

You wouldn't partner Horan with Larkham? Lynagh with Farr-Jones?

You pick the best individuals and create a team around that...

I think you almost compared McCabe to Horan there. I need a lie down.

 

[TOCC]

McCabe doesn't tackle as hard? I don't believe that...

And a lot of players don't have provincial combinations with Cooper... what does that have to do with anything?

You wouldn't partner Horan with Larkham? Lynagh with Farr-Jones?

You pick the best individuals and create a team around that...

You just listed 4 of the all time wallaby greats as to why McCabe should be starting..
McCabe is a good player, il give him that, but sheesh..

I understand the point you are trying to make, but the reality is that Fainga'a, McCabe or TC would only be stop gap measures, just waiting for someone better to come along(ie JOC (James O'Connor) 2012).

All 3 are a poor mans Nathan Grey

 

[No4918]

It's been said but i'm of the opinion that with O'Connor and Beale in the back 3 there is no need for another playmaker at 12. As we saw in the final when there is messy ball at the ruck and the 9 is going backwards Cooper is going to suffer. A second playmaker isn't going to help much. Very, very few sides have got to QC (Quade Cooper) when he has had front foot ball.

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Fainga'a
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. OConnor
15. Beale

20. Phipps (until Burgess returns)
21. Giteau
22. Gerrard/McCabe

 

[DPK]

All 3 are a poor mans Nathan Grey

Maybe that's because they haven't had the international experience? You never know, you show some of these guys the green and gold and they improve on the spot.

 

[cyclopath]

I don't think Slim was actually comparing McCabe as being of the same standard as the 4 greats mentioned, but making the point that perhaps too much is made of this "Quade needs Fainga'a next to him because he has a mystic understanding that no-one else can" which seems to be a common theme presented for Ant Fainga'a's selection. Fainga'a should be selected, or not, because he is good enough, or not, but not because he and Quade are psychic!
I wouldn't mind seeing how he goes against Samoa, but I do think there are others who might offer just as much, and maybe something else too.

 

[TOCC]

Jeez I thought that was a compliment.. There attributes are similar..
Grey earned 35 tests, no small feet, but similar to these players, he really only earnt them off the bench or when the preferred player was injured

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Jeez I thought that was a compliment.. There attributes are similar..
Grey earned 35 tests, no small feet, but similar to these players, he really only earnt them off the bench or when the preferred player was injured

I think having the "poor man's" comparison kind of detracted from the compliment.

 

[Swarley]

It's been said but i'm of the opinion that with O'Connor and Beale in the back 3 there is no need for another playmaker at 12. As we saw in the final when there is messy ball at the ruck and the 9 is going backwards Cooper is going to suffer. A second playmaker isn't going to help much. Very, very few sides have got to QC (Quade Cooper) when he has had front foot ball.

If we don't go for a second playmaker, it'd be much better to select either Barnes or Gerrard. Barnes is a much better defender than Fainga'a and is extremely level-headed and focused, and performed excellently with QC (Quade Cooper) last year. Gerrard brings the long-range kicking game that our back-line is missing. Fainga'a doesn't really bring any spark or added bonus to the table, just a solid, no-frills player.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Swarley, agreed. Our backline performed at its best when the 9/10/12 combo was Genia/Cooper/Barnes last year.

 

[fatprop]

McCabe is more of a threat ball in hand than the other two, and probably a more rounded footballer

 

[Richo]

Jeez I thought that was a compliment.. There attributes are similar..
Grey earned 35 tests, no small feet, but similar to these players, he really only earnt them off the bench or when the preferred player was injured

So whose feet are bigger: McCabe, TC or A. Fainga'a?

 

[Swarley]

McCabe is more of a threat ball in hand than the other two, and probably a more rounded footballer

Agreed. The main reason Fainga'a performs so well at the Reds is because of the style the play. With such an expansive, wide-running game-plan the Reds need centres who are defensively solid and can compete at the breakdown- enter Ant Fainga'a. He's a flanker at heart, having played there from a young age, but his style isn't suited to Deans' plans.

 

[liquor box]

Agreed. The main reason Fainga'a performs so well at the Reds is because of the style the play. With such an expansive, wide-running game-plan the Reds need centres who are defensively solid and can compete at the breakdown- enter Ant Fainga'a. He's a flanker at heart, having played there from a young age, but his style isn't suited to Deans' plans.

wasn't he rediculously close to top turnover man for the Reds in 2010?

 

[Swarley]

wasn't he rediculously close to top turnover man for the Reds in 2010?

He was the the top. Even more turnovers than Braid!

 

[light]

This debate could go on for years, Fainga'a got the spot, TC didn't. There are always mistakes and players 'over-looked' and if Dean's rated Carter he would have selected him end of story. The fact that he picked Fainga'a who was part of a successful backline suggests that if given the choice between two relatively even players he would pick the one with established combinations and the one who is winning more so than not. There's no point arguing about it, Fainga'a is clearly in Dean's plans for the tri-nations and possibly world cup so this thread really should be closed.

IMO I don't think he we be in a starting XV against stronger nations but that's another story and we could debate which game-plan Deans will go with for another 300 posts. If it's a kicking game you'd prefer Barnes,JOC (James O'Connor) or Giteau and if it's the running game then probably AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Fainga'a. For the Fainga'a supporters out there who don't believe me, the fact that McCabe is starting 12 against Samoa suggests that Deans wants to see him there, if he impresses I don't think he will lose the jersey, if he isn't so crash hot Fainga'a might get to start the next game.

 

[Scotty]

If Deans uses JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing, and has the likes of Beale, Davies, Ioane out wide, he'd be silly not to play a wider game with centres that are quasi opensides and fast loose forwards.

 

[Swarley]

If Deans uses JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing, and has the likes of Beale, Davies, Ioane out wide, he'd be silly not to play a wider game with centres that are quasi opensides and fast loose forwards.

Barnes and Ashley-Cooper will suffice with Pocock on the field.