The Rugby Championship 2018

[Derpus]

I thought that match perfectly encapsulates what was lost when the ABs finally lost Carter and installed BB. A) the All Blacks would not have needed a dropkick to win that match because Carter could kick goals and B) they would have attempted a dropkick if they had Carter sitting back waiting to slot one.

BB will run in four tries against the worst Wallabies side of the last 30 odd years but he won't nail the fundamentals 99.99% of the time.

 

[Derpus]

What did Nigel do wrong on Saturday? I know there the old 'he apparently missed the 2 touchies calling the Boks offside at the end od decided they weren't, but big deal, I thought he reffed the game well, and the game turned out with right result as it normally does when he is reffing , which is why he ranked No 1 in world.

The 30 metre advantage was the most overt, plenty of the scrum decisions were questionable and awarding the All Blacks the feed at the end was pretty confusing. He awarded the scrum after the Springbok came flying out with the ball, for being held up?

Either there were hands in the ruck and the Springboks won the ball illegaly which is a penalty or they won the ball fair and square and play on. I don't see how, if the ball is out, it could possibly be a scrum.

 

[Dan54]

I thought that match perfectly encapsulates what was lost when the ABs finally lost Carter and installed BB. A) the All Blacks would not have needed a dropkick to win that match because Carter could kick goals and B) they would have attempted a dropkick if they had Carter sitting back waiting to slot one.

BB will run in four tries against the worst Wallabies side of the last 30 odd years but he won't nail the fundamentals 99.99% of the time.

You want to read that again Derpus? He only does the fundamentals .01% of the time?? Really? And the ABs have got their winning record with a 10 that bad? And as for Dan Carter who I thought was obviously the best 10, you want to run through the drop kick he took to save them from losing the 07 WC quarter final against France?
Saying things like that is taking credit away from the Boks wonderful win!

 

[Derpus]

No, all i said was that he won't hit the fundamentals at an extremely high rate (or as high as Carter, anyway) which is true. Not he will only hit them .01% of the time.

I'm also not taking anything away from the Boks amazing win, against the odds and ref. Wonderful stuff in a wonderful test.

I think BB is an amazing but flawed player and this match illustrated that point. I also think that the ABs amazing winning run has more to do with the decline in quality of the teams surrounding them as it does their own amazing systems and team.

 

[2bluesfan]

The 30 metre advantage was the most overt, plenty of the scrum decisions were questionable and awarding the All Blacks the feed at the end was pretty confusing. He awarded the scrum after the Springbok came flying out with the ball, for being held up?

Either there were hands in the ruck and the Springboks won the ball illegaly which is a penalty or they won the ball fair and square and play on. I don't see how, if the ball is out, it could possibly be a scrum.

Unless, perhaps, he had made that call "just before" the ball somehow came loose and available to be played by the Springboks. I can't be bothered to go back to check if that is a possible scenario but I confess I was confused by the ruling at the time. As a Two Blue, I was taught to never question a referee's call

 

[Derpus]

Unless, perhaps, he had made that call "just before" the ball somehow came loose and available to be played by the Springboks. I can't be bothered to go back to check if that is a possible scenario but I confess I was confused by the ruling at the time. As a Two Blue, I was taught to never question a referee's call

Only while you are playing, and even then you kind of can if you are the Captain.

 

[2bluesfan]

Only while you are playing, and even then you kind of can if you are the Captain.

I always took the view that we might have the same bastard referee next week

 

[Grant NZ]

as for Dan Carter who I thought was obviously the best 10, you want to run through the drop kick he took to save them from losing the 07 WC quarter final against France?

Hard to nail a droppie when you're sitting on the bench after going off injured, tbf.

 

[Grant NZ]

I thought that match perfectly encapsulates what was lost when the ABs finally lost Carter and installed BB. A) the All Blacks would not have needed a dropkick to win that match because Carter could kick goals and B) they would have attempted a dropkick if they had Carter sitting back waiting to slot one.

He only kicked 8 drop goals in his entire test career (from 112 tests vs Wilkinson kicking 36 from 97 tests). 3 of those were game changing from memory (a winner v Ireland and the ones in the RWC semi & final) but it's not like he was nailing them all the time.

To be honest, I think ball in hand was possibly a higher % play. You only get one crack at a dg, you get multiple goes at a try & they'd already scored 6 including two through the forwards in the last 15 minutes. And that's not even considering the possibility of a penalty.

 

[zer0]

To be honest, I think ball in hand was possibly a higher % play. You only get one crack at a dg, you get multiple goes at a try & they'd already scored 6 including two through the forwards in the last 15 minutes. And that's not even considering the possibility of a penalty.

It would've been a drop goal off stable scrum at point blank range where the kicker could be parked so far back in the pocket that Perenara would need to pay international shipping to get the ball to him. I genuinely can't think of any other realistic match scenario where it would get any easier. The only variables at play are the pass and the kick. Or, more specifically, the kickers nerve.

Gunning to score a try, on the other hand, introduces the myriad complexities of dealing with the breakdown, maintaining possession in the face of a desperate defence and invites an uncontrollable variable -- the referee -- to have a say in the result. It's sheer madness and, TBH, thoroughly unprofessional.

 

[KOB1987]

Unless, perhaps, he had made that call "just before" the ball somehow came loose and available to be played by the Springboks. I can't be bothered to go back to check if that is a possible scenario but I confess I was confused by the ruling at the time. As a Two Blue, I was taught to never question a referee's call

Yeah he didn't though.

Faf appeared with the ball and old mate didn't notice he had it until he ran around behind him and was off towards the 22. It seemed he had no idea what had happened and blew it up. I can understand why he might have done that but as Derpus points out if there was no infringement it's the attacking team's ball. Just because they were on their own line doesn't declassify them as being the attacking team. The only way it should have been the AB's ball was if he ruled the Boks obtained it illegally, in which case it's penalty AB's.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Just watched it on the train home. Nige rules the ball was short of the line but didn't want to "guess" how Faf got the ball (given he was lieng on the ground before standing up with the ball probably pretty luck for the Boks ;-)

So unplayable ruck, and all blacks moving forward get the ball - not the attacking team.

Nige had the whistle in the pocket for the last minute. Boks were off side for everyone one of the last few rucks.

Can't comment on the rest of the criticisms above. Just watched the last couple of minutes

 

[PaarlBok]

You want to read that again Derpus? He only does the fundamentals .01% of the time?? Really? And the ABs have got their winning record with a 10 that bad? And as for Dan Carter who I thought was obviously the best 10, you want to run through the drop kick he took to save them from losing the 07 WC quarter final against France?
Saying things like that is taking credit away from the Boks wonderful win!

Cheers Boet, havent been here for quite a while. SA Rugby needed this win , the rematch will be a cracker.

 

[Derpus]

The 30 metre advantage was the most overt, plenty of the scrum decisions were questionable and awarding the All Blacks the feed at the end was pretty confusing. He awarded the scrum after the Springbok came flying out with the ball, for being held up?

Either there were hands in the ruck and the Springboks won the ball illegaly which is a penalty or they won the ball fair and square and play on. I don't see how, if the ball is out, it could possibly be a scrum.

Couple of other ones were the discrpency in approach to an injured player. Am was down, and Nige allowed the throw in. Bang, try. Squire was down in the reverse, Nige did not allow the throw. Possibly due to numbers in the lineout (my best guess)?

Also the first maul try to NZ where there was a clear break between the carrier and the players in front, truck and trailer. Should have been penalty Springboks.

As with all decisions, individually potentially debatable, taken overall Nige clearly favouring the All Blacks. Which he is renowned for.

 

[Derpus]

He only kicked 8 drop goals in his entire test career (from 112 tests vs Wilkinson kicking 36 from 97 tests). 3 of those were game changing from memory (a winner v Ireland and the ones in the RWC semi & final) but it's not like he was nailing them all the time.

To be honest, I think ball in hand was possibly a higher % play. You only get one crack at a dg, you get multiple goes at a try & they'd already scored 6 including two through the forwards in the last 15 minutes. And that's not even considering the possibility of a penalty.

Yeah but think about their relative positions. Wilkinson was probably only par for kicking excellence with Carter but he was England's primary source of points.

Carter played behind a dominant pack and with the best backs around. Was very rarely called on to make a dropkick. But hey ho when it was needed he still slotted them.

 

[PaarlBok]

You lot complain about the refs make me flounce. The Springbokke and All Blacks played a massive test , forget about the stupid ref. He did his job OK.

 

[Derpus]

You lot complain about the refs make me flounce. The Springbokke and All Blacks played a massive test , forget about the stupid ref. He did his job OK.

True enough. I was just pointing out for Dan the weird decisions. No dog in the fight myself so not really complaining.

 

[Dan54]

You lot complain about the refs make me flounce. The Springbokke and All Blacks played a massive test , forget about the stupid ref. He did his job OK.

Yep mate, all I want a ref to do is give us a game like that where the best team won, which I have never really seen not happen.
I obviously prefer the ABs to win, but enjoyed the test so much I was surprised that there seemed to be people picking at ref, BB, Jordie etc etc, when I really thought most would just sit back and say ,bloody great test, won by the Boks, and yehaa no team is guaranteed of winning when playing a team that plays as well as the Boks did. Personally I might of got an even more of a kick, because I tend to just put it it down as losing to a team that I can't get too upset at,and just hope it reminds some of the younger ones that the Bok/AB rivalry is still one to be cherished!

 

[Derpus]

Yep mate, all I want a ref to do is give us a game like that where the best team won, which I have never really seen not happen.
I obviously prefer the ABs to win, but enjoyed the test so much I was surprised that there seemed to be people picking at ref, BB, Jordie etc etc, when I really thought most would just sit back and say ,bloody great test, won by the Boks, and yehaa no team is guaranteed of winning when playing a team that plays as well as the Boks did. Personally I might of got an even more of a kick, because I tend to just put it it down as losing to a team that I can't get too upset at,and just hope it reminds some of the younger ones that the Bok/AB rivalry is still one to be cherished!

I'll tell you why, not that it will make you happy.

Neutrals want to see the All Blacks lose. Simple. They always win so an All Blacks loss is always the most interesting outcome. The Springboks were well ahead and good value for their lead, until the final 20.

Then suddenly you have 6-7 questionable penalties conceded by the Springboks, among other strange advantages (30 metres over the ad line, turnover called back for scrum, etc) and they are back in the game.

Perhaps the perception of bias is just that. Maybe Nige was spot on with each and every decision. I have my doubts. Regardless, the perception of bias will always be there when the penalty count suddenly switches mid-match to favour only the one side, correct or otherwise, and it allows them back into the match.

 

[Dan54]

I'll tell you why, not that it will make you happy.

Neutrals want to see the All Blacks lose. Simple. They always win so an All Blacks loss is always the most interesting outcome. The Springboks were well ahead and good value for their lead, until the final 20.

Then suddenly you have 6-7 questionable penalties conceded by the Springboks, among other strange advantages (30 metres over the ad line, turnover called back for scrum, etc) and they are back in the game.

Perhaps the perception of bias is just that. Maybe Nige was spot on with each and every decision. I have my doubts. Regardless, the perception of bias will always be there when the penalty count suddenly switches mid-match to favour only the one side, correct or otherwise, and it allows them back into the match.

I have no problem with neutrals wanting the ABs to lose Derpus, I realise if you don't think your own team can/will do it easier to hop on another team. But I glad you do admit that you did have a dog in the fight even if just by proxy. Mate and I don't even mind you thinking whatever you want, my biggest bugbear, and I know it happens a lot on this site, that instead of enjoying a bloody great game of rugby, a lot don't give me the impression that they actually enjoyed a great Bok win, which I think is wrong. It part of what seems the negative attitude a lot have to the game here, not celebrating what is good, but even getting results you want still seeking what could be wrong. You know what just relax and enjoy our great game!