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You claimed that Cheika will pick players to suit his style, yet admit they fail to execute that plan or "style"..... perhaps it's time Cheika selects a game play to suit the players he has to work with..
The Wallabies Thread
- Thread starter KOB1987
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You claimed that Cheika will pick players to suit his style, yet admit they fail to execute that plan or "style"..... perhaps it's time Cheika selects a game play to suit the players he has to work with..
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Guest
Baffling isn't it...
My biggest gripe is the lack of a back up 5/8, it just seems like such an obviously amateur mistake that I'm struggling to understand the logic
Forcefield
Ken Catchpole (46)
I reckon Cheika is just firing a rocket up Quade's ass. Drop him, build the hunger, and bring back in a fired up Quade when the final squad is named.
I hope so. Quade has looked out of sorts all year - not just in his actual play, but he just has not exuded the bravado he did in 2010-2012 especially. Is it just injury-related, or is there more to it? I'd love to see him attack the line and square the defence more. Gotta think players like Naivalu / Speight / Folau / DHP running angles and inside lines off a direct Cooper would be nice to see.
I think it would be easier to find a new coach than get Cheika to markedly change his plans
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A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
Yes. It appears as though Cheika is having trouble finding the players to carryout his gameplan. I don't see this bunch as being much different from the last and the opposition will be a step up.
Happy to be proven wrong but cannot see it right now.
We definitely need changes in the way we play the game. It cannot be all out attack a la "the Australian way". We need a more conservative defensive based game to start and break into the"Australian way" when the opportunity presents itself.
As stated here a couple of times, we do need a game designed around the players we have. Defense has always won games and nothing has changed as far as I can see. Limiting the ABs to 18-20 or less points a game would be a great place to start. I don't see that as being an unreasonable goal.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
All-out attack is hardly the Australian way, anyway, at least for the successful sides. It's some myth conjured between the period where we were actually good and today.
Unless I'm failing to remember correctly, the World Cup winning Australian sides had remarkable defensive records.
Unless I'm failing to remember correctly, the World Cup winning Australian sides had remarkable defensive records.
William88
Syd Malcolm (24)
So good that the 1999 World Cup winning team only had 1 try scored against them the whole tournament.
And that was the USA I believe.
jimmydubs
Dave Cowper (27)
Not the plan itself?
waiopehu oldboy
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think Quade is carrying at least one dodgy shoulder & has been for a long time, hence his reluctance to take contact or tackle low, and that's affected his confidence. Doesn't help when his 9's this year have mostly delivered either dreadfully slow or quick but inaccurate ball, either way he's a target for any well-organised defence & that just feeds his frustration. I don't know how you break that cycle but maybe a stint in a lower-level comp & a proper off-season might help.
All of that said, I'm still somewhat surprised he didn't make a squad of 38 selected from only 4/5 of Australia's Super Rugby teams, esp when two of them are running Un-Australian 5/8's.
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
I'm sure his job is a tough one and it is easy for us the keyboard bandits to be ultra critical. However, we are still the fans and most here have a very good understanding of, and love for, the game.
The BILs showed how to put the ABs under pressure with line speed and making most of their tackles. Defense and set piece must be at the core of our game. There is no doubt that we have the attacking fire power to score points. We need to figure out how to stop the other mob from scoring more on a consistent basis.
Defense is the key
The BILs showed how to put the ABs under pressure with line speed and making most of their tackles. Defense and set piece must be at the core of our game. There is no doubt that we have the attacking fire power to score points. We need to figure out how to stop the other mob from scoring more on a consistent basis.
Defense is the key
That is what Deans ended up doing.
He started limiting width in attack, keeping the ball and stopping opportunities for turnovers
And everybody hated it
Well, I would rather see the ball run and a team having a go
The challenge is that Aus teams appear to have fallen so far behind in the technical basics of rugby
Cleaning out
Chasing kicks
Running hard
Tackling hard
Getting up and back into position
Working hard to support and give the ball carrier options
And lets face it, the ABs also have looked leaner, fitter, faster and always angrier than we do for years.
and what would that be?
seriously,
more playing from set piece to set piece?
keep the ball in tight, trucking it up the middle?
commit more players to each ruck and hope we don't get caught out wide?
What do you think would be the game plan to suit the players he has to work with?
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Guest
Should I rattle of the same the same catchwords that you did ?... high tempo, dominant tackles, counter tucks, strong clean outs, a focus on skill and execution.
Let's be clear FP, you're the one claiming that Cheika's style and game plan intent is obvious(subjective comment), and he will only pick players who suit that, and for those who aren't selected it's because they don't suit his style. Yet since 2015 RWC, this plan or selection policy has been ineffective. Its clear something needs to change, if he doesn't have the players available to play the style he wants then he needs to reconsider the style he intends to play. Do you disagree with that?
Wallabies played stupid rugby during the recent June series and likewise against England last year, if the game plan was reluctance to adapt then they certainly achieved that. Wallabies could have won the June series last year, but they refused to adapt their game plan to England's rush defence, the only time Foley kicked the ball over the top in 3 tests the Wallabies scored. Likewise with this series, stupid decisions all around with players making poor ineffective kicks, or passing and kicking at wrong time. This says that they either don't understand the game plan, or they don't believe in the game plan.
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Inability to adapt isn't a positive attribute
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
FP is Michael Cheika and I claim my Gr&G Koozie!
I don't think we should not attack. We do it and do it pretty well. The problem is we concede too many points. Balance is needed but defense and the set piece should be a focus.
Any backline with Foley, Beale and Folau and some speed out wide will score points with the ball.
I think it was Michael Cheika that said that rugby is a very simple game, you just have to score more points than the other team.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
Let's do a thought excercise - a polemic in strategy and think through selections with each extreme.
First a game plan based on putting forwards on forwards and backs on backs, target possession, line outs less important, turnover pretty important. Cheika/Grey structure works OK 1-3-3-1. Tight 5 more or less speak for themselves. We want big boppers in the centres which in turn means your 10 must be an actual playmaker not just a distributer. We want fast ball.
Loose forwards can not afford a very wide 7 so Hooper is out. Or at least would be when Pocock returns We need a bust up the guts 8 and 6. I am not actually convinced that we have the cattle for this structure in the loose forwards.
In the Backs Phipps for fast ball, Quade is the play meaker, Kerevi/ Kuridrani in the centres. Drop the drift defence to keep things tight, which means we need speed out the back. Folau doesn't obviously fit this structure either.
Second a game plan not so concerned with possession stats and happy to target a counter attack and expression. Ideally we swap the structure to a version of the Kiwi 2-4-2, forwards attack backs, backs attack forwards. There will be kicking and line outs.
Tight 5 play different in the rucks but the system should address more power in the middle. We keep Hooper out wide, Pocock does not start in this system, and we take Fardy/Higgers for jumping and keeping wide. Others might take their slots but they express the game plan well.
We need intelligence not instinct in the halves, we flood the backline with playmakers, so you can afford to be more conservative at 10. So Genia-Foley-Beale-choose a Fijian. I'd put all the playmakers in so Hunt to 15 and Folau on the wing. The sliding defence works for me in this game plan.
The second game plan will not scare the Kiwis as they play against it every day of the week. Tactically the 1-3-3-1 AND the player selection ramifications might be stronger.
Those strategies are intentionally polemic there is obvious room for a smart coach to weave some magic between the two. Especially if form dictates that neither Quade nor Phipps will start. But at the moment there is little obvious clarity in Cheika's selections and game plans - IMO anyway.
Consistent selections would be:
1. the front row and back up - we just don't have a lot of alternatives.
2. Second row - Coleman features whatever happens, he'd be my captain.
3. Beale would feature on the bench in the first and starting in the second.
4. Folau plays, his position changes.