Wallabies 2020

[eastman]

9. White
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Koro
12. To'omua
13. Petaia
14. Wright (or Daugunu)
15. Maddocks (but I'd pick DHP if he comes back in decent form for the Rebs)

That's a pretty solid backline.

I think at this stage this is probably the strongest/most pragmatic backline (balancing experience vs potential) that we can put on the field- which can be refined over the next few seasons.

JOC (James O'Connor) is still not a great 10; he lacks a long passing game and ability to really unlock the backline. In saying that he is still threatening when he takes the ball to the line and with his short-passing game, and probably more importantly, he competes. You can trust him to make his tackles, is still relatively robust in contact and rarely has a poor game.

Deegan to me looks like the next immediate successor but as others have said, he hasn't played enough rugby at this level to deserve selection.

I also don't think you can select both Koro and Daugunu as starting wings. They're both extremely threatening and strong defensively, however both have limitations in skillset and rugby nous. Pick one to start and complement with a Wright (or potentially Ramm).

 

[eastman]

One more stream of consciousness; If we're going to select White as the starting 9 (and I'm not sure that he really has the runs on the board to deserve it through incumbency, but putting that to the side), then the reserve scrum-half should be either McDermott or Gordon. Both these players have points of differences as opposed to Powell (no fault of his own) who plays in a more traditional manner to White.

Watching Gordon over the last couple weeks has reminded me of his upside and X-factor; he's the best ball-running/ support scrumhalf in the game, and his kicking game has measurably improved.

I wouldn't be against a combination of 9. McDermott / 21. Gordon.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah just start To'omua at 12. He's obviously the best 12 in the country.

I think JOC (James O'Connor) does a better job of covering 10 but i'd like his versatility off the bench. Since Lolesio is injured Harrison moves to 10.

That said - i'm happy for Rennie to ease the young 10s in off the bench so JOC (James O'Connor) starting 10 for the first few matches/this year.

DHP is poo on the wing as well IMO. If you want a second fullback (not my preferred option) get Ramm in there. He can kick and is actually dangerous in space. Personally, with a kicking fullback on the field (preferably Maddocks) i think you can carry two strike wingers in MK and Daugunu/Petaia (not sold on Wright).

To MK's credit i've also seen him pull off the odd decent kick when pressured into it.

Edit: Also BR, you are laughing if you think Deegan has earnt a Wallaby spot yet. I think the Rebels are a much better side with him in it but he's got a bit to prove yet.

Just two comments D. Did you notice MK's kick in general play on the weekend? Led directly to Campbell's break and a try to the Reds. Not a good recommendation.

People tend to overlook the experience Deegan has playing 10 in GRR and NRC. More experience and quality game time than any of the U20s. On top of that, he's a genuine No 10, not a stopgap like To'omua or O'Connor. With the likes of White and To'omua around him, I rate him as near the best of the options for 10 this year.

Otherwise, agree with your views on DHP, Maddocks and delaying the introduction of Harrison and Lolesio until next year or later.

 

[fatprop]

One more stream of consciousness; If we're going to select White as the starting 9 (and I'm not sure that he really has the runs on the board to deserve it through incumbency, but putting that to the side), then the reserve scrum-half should be either McDermott or Gordon. Both these players have points of differences as opposed to Powell (no fault of his own) who plays in a more traditional manner to White.

Watching Gordon over the last couple weeks has reminded me of his upside and X-factor; he's the best ball-running/ support scrumhalf in the game, and his kicking game has measurably improved.

I wouldn't be against a combination of 9. McDermott / 21. Gordon.

Gordon pass is quite good as well. I do like a 9 who can clear, box kick & be a running threat, it takes pressure off the 10

If the choice was McDermott vs Gordon, I would probably start with Gordon's kicking & and finish with McDermott's superior running game against tiring pigs

 

[barbarian]

People tend to overlook the experience Deegan has playing 10 in GRR and NRC. More experience and quality game time than any of the U20s. On top of that, he's a genuine No 10, not a stopgap like To'omua or O'Connor. With the likes of White and To'omua around him, I rate him as near the best of the options for 10 this year.
.

This is where we disagree BR. To my eyes, Deegan is a decent enough Super player but does not yet scream 'Wallaby 10'.

He's started in three (?) games for the Rebels, with mixed success. He's played a bit of GRR and NRC, but his pedigree hardly fills me with confidence when we're taking on the ABs.

JOC (James O'Connor) isn't a perfect 10, but as far as pedigree goes he's looked good for the Reds and started there for the Wallabies in a series against the Lions, where he played pretty well IMO despite a lot of public criticism. His play wasn't the reason we lost that series.
.

 

[barbarian]

Gordon pass is quite good as well. I do like a 9 who can clear, box kick & be a running threat, it takes pressure off the 10

If the choice was McDermott vs Gordon, I would probably start with Gordon's kicking & and finish with McDermott's superior running game against tiring pigs

Gordon's instincts are great, it's no fluke he's scoring tries. He follows the play well and has amazing timing on his support runs. An underrated asset.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Harrison and Lolesio have already been playing at a level that Deegan has shown and have a far higher ceiling than he does.

I think the Rebels have looked better with Deegan at 10 primarily because To'omua has been far better at 12. The Brumbies game was definitely Deegan's best game of the season but I thought it was mostly To'omua that made the Rebels look good and organised.

He'd be well down my list of potential Wallaby 10s. I'll bet he won't make the squad.

 

[Pone's Mullet]

Harrison (21) and Lolesio (20) have more potential for the Wallabies IMHO, MT and JOC (James O'Connor) will likely play centre and cover FH in the squad

I think Harrison and Lolesio have already been playing at a level that Deegan has shown and have a far higher ceiling than he does.

I think the Rebels have looked better with Deegan at 10 primarily because To'omua has been far better at 12. The Brumbies game was definitely Deegan's best game of the season but I thought it was mostly To'omua that made the Rebels look good and organised.

He'd be well down my list of potential Wallaby 10s. I'll bet he won't make the squad.

 

[sendit]

Harrison (21) and Lolesio (20) have more potential for the Wallabies IMHO, MT and JOC (James O'Connor) will likely play centre and cover FH in the squad

I agree, i'd love if the end of year wallaby trials went ahead for both to be on opposing sides with JOC (James O'Connor) and To'omua outside them and see what works

 

[Blue]

Don't disagree with most of what has been posted above, and I particularly like what BR wrote about experience over youth. I said pre-COVID we'd likely see JOC (James O'Connor)/To'omua as our 10/12, and I still think that's the best option at this stage.

I like JOC (James O'Connor)'s organisation of the Reds backline, and the way he's setting up his outside men - his ball to Stewart to set up the Reds final try was a good example of this.

Petaia has to be there somewhere, but the next few weeks will tell us if it's on the wing or at 13. I am guessing it's only a matter of time before the Reds put him closer to the ball.

And who knows what sort of shape Nic White is in, but like BR I think the incumbency should be respected, his form last year was good.

9. White
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. Koro
12. To'omua
13. Petaia
14. Wright (or Daugunu)
15. Maddocks (but I'd pick DHP if he comes back in decent form for the Rebs)

That's a pretty solid backline.

9. White
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
12. To'omua

To me that is totally obvious. No discussion. White and To'omua take a ton of kicking pressure off JOC (James O'Connor). White kicks for goal. Best of the 3 (stats-wise I stand to be corrected?).

I would not pick JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 without those two on either side because they complement his game very well indeed. Where it went wrong for JOC (James O'Connor) against the BI Lions at 10 was that way way too much was expected of an immature kid.

With those three pick the biggest, straightest runner you can at 13 who is willing to tackle himself into the ground.

The young 10's are not ready. Not by a long shot. Their game are not developed enough. They have great potential but don't push them now. No need to. They need a full season with MORE pressure put on them up against different defenses.

Wright looks the goods eh? Smart player. Daugunu looks completely lost in defense. He would get owned by a clever kicking test ten and an AB or Bok defense. They will be onto him. No way. Needs some help in that part of his game. Can be fixed but needs a full season. No way he comes anywhere near the squad now but he has some X.

 

[TSR]

I just find Gordon has been inconsistent in the past and I’m not sure that he consistently plays well enough. At his best he’s a fine half. I always wondered if being chopped and changed with Phipps hurting his confidence and then he’s had injuries this year.

With regards to Deegan I think it says something that he hasn’t got a starting gig at Super level until now. BUT the big thing is that there isn’t a clear option who is screaming pick me at 10 for mine. I think JOC (James O'Connor) has generally been very good at the Reds, and he’d be my pick personally with To'omua at 12, but I don’t think either of them would be more than stop gaps at 10. Harrison looks like a great prospect, but he also looks like he isn’t ready yet to me. Deegan might be something of a Bradbury option, but he would at least be a consideration. I do think he’d have to play the house down though and he really doesn’t have long to do that.

 

[Rebels3]

I’d say Deegan is even beyond 5th choice. If a game was this week the selectors would go Lance before Deegan. I’d even go as far as saying they would call Foley back (over 60 caps) before Deegan gets selected. Obviously things can change in the coming weeks with the Rebels having 2 matches to go, but he isn’t going to usurp JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua in that time no matter the performance.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

With those three pick the biggest, straightest runner you can at 13 who is willing to tackle himself into the ground.

My thoughts exactly. Kuridrani at 13 with Petaia at 14. Korobeite at 11.

 

[eastman]

My thoughts exactly. Kuridrani at 13 with Petaia at 14. Korobeite at 11.

I don't think we should retain JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and Kuridrani in the starting 15 - combinations of them sure but not all of them together. At this stage they are known quantities and we probably know their limitations. Of 3, IMO, Kuridrani deserves selection the least when comparing recent form (spanning over 2-3 years now).

I don't think think we should create some narrative where he has Nonu- like tendencies to come good for the Wallabies despite Super form- he hasn't stood out in a gold jersey for a number of years now.

 

[drewprint]

Yeah, it’s a fine line between keeping experienced heads in with all the young talent. In some ways I’d to have more of the young guys in my team but overall they need to be drip fed in steadily. You can’t expose them all at once. So I would be going with:

Slipper
Fainga’a
Tupou
Philip
LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
Valetini
Hooper
Naisarani
White
JOC (James O'Connor)
Koroibete
To'omua
Kuridrani
Petaia
Maddocks

 

[fatprop]

I don't think we should retain JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and Kuridrani in the starting 15 - combinations of them sure but not all of them together. At this stage they are known quantities and we probably know their limitations. Of 3, IMO, Kuridrani deserves selection the least when comparing recent form (spanning over 2-3 years now).

I don't think think we should create some narrative where he has Nonu- like tendencies to come good for the Wallabies despite Super form- he hasn't stood out in a gold jersey for a number of years now.

Kuridrani has never started a season in form, it takes weeks of playing before he is back to his best

 

[rugboy]

Yeah, it’s a fine line between keeping experienced heads in with all the young talent. In some ways I’d to have more of the young guys in my team but overall they need to be drip fed in steadily. You can’t expose them all at once. So I would be going with:

Slipper
Fainga’a
Tupou
Philip
LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
Valetini
Hooper
Naisarani
White
Koroibete
JOC (James O'Connor)
To'omua
Kuridrani
Petaia
Maddocks

Koroibete is the John Eales Medalist and is coming into some good form recently, but I think a move to 10 might still be beyond him

 

[Tahtrajic]

I’d say Deegan is even beyond 5th choice. If a game was this week the selectors would go Lance before Deegan. I’d even go as far as saying they would call Foley back (over 60 caps) before Deegan gets selected. Obviously things can change in the coming weeks with the Rebels having 2 matches to go, but he isn’t going to usurp JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua in that time no matter the performance.

I agree with you. As To'omua went off the Rebels didn’t have a clue. Not taking anything away from the Reds D but the Rebels attack was rubbish in the 2nd half. No To'omua to take control.

 

[drewprint]

Koroibete is the John Eales Medalist and is coming into some good form recently, but I think a move to 10 might still be beyond him

Haha. Time to throw caution to the wind against the All Blacks I say!

 

[KOB1987]

I’d say Deegan is even beyond 5th choice. If a game was this week the selectors would go Lance before Deegan. I’d even go as far as saying they would call Foley back (over 60 caps) before Deegan gets selected. Obviously things can change in the coming weeks with the Rebels having 2 matches to go, but he isn’t going to usurp JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua in that time no matter the performance.

Yeah that was one thing I found confusing about BRs post, which I have to say was a pretty credible post overall. But he was talking about taking things slow with the rookies and letting the experienced players guide them, and then all of a sudden Deegan was installed as the Wallabies #10. He’s not a bad player but as someone else said there’s a reason it’s taken him several years and three (I think?) franchises to land a starting gig.

I agree with you. As To'omua went off the Rebels didn’t have a clue. Not taking anything away from the Reds D but the Rebels attack was rubbish in the 2nd half. No To'omua to take control.

You could argue that he would have this in a Wallabies jersey, and an experienced 9 inside him, but I still can’t see it happening.