Wallabies 2020

[TSR]

But I think you’ve outlined the very reasons a lot of us think he’ll do better.

Deans, McKenzie & Cheika all, to various extents, had a lack of choice with players.

The current enthusiasm is bought about, I believe, largely due to the emerging group of players.

Not only does this appear to be the best group of emerging talent since the late 80s, but they are filling up spots which have been particularly problematic for us.

Is the wave of optimism based largely on unproven talent - at test level absolutely. It might all end in tears.

But surely it’s more fun to be optimistic.

 

[rodha]

But I think you’ve outlined the very reasons a lot of us think he’ll do better.

Deans, McKenzie & Cheika all, to various extents, had a lack of choice with players.

The current enthusiasm is bought about, I believe, largely due to the emerging group of players.

Not only does this appear to be the best group of emerging talent since the late 80s, but they are filling up spots which have been particularly problematic for us.

Is the wave of optimism based largely on unproven talent - at test level absolutely. It might all end in tears.

But surely it’s more fun to be optimistic.

I have my reservations because you are missing 11 players from last year that moved on in 2019, including some key senior players such as Pocock, Genia, Kerevi, Arnold, Rodda, Coleman, Latu etc..

It's going to be another 3 years (at least) until the entire current group of U-20 campaign players have matured at test level.

The next few seasons are going to be rebuilding years as the majority of your squad is under the age of 24.

In the meantime the Wallabies still have to play the All Blacks (3 times) and South Africa (2 times) each year.

During the Dean's era the Wallabies had to play NZ (4 times) and SA (3 times) per year, with no respite games against Argentina who didn't join the Rugby Championship until his final year.

Deans finished with a pretty impressive record considering.

 

[Derpus]

Shouldn't that be encouraging then. We have slightly weaker opposition on average and our best coach in the last decade was also a Kiwi.

People are just stoked Cheika is gone because he turned out to be an absolute mug.

 

[Adam84]

Wallabies will win every test against the Sprinkboks this year

 

[KOB1987]

I have my reservations because you are missing 11 players from last year that moved on in 2019, including some key senior players such as Pocock, Genia, Kerevi, Arnold, Rodda, Coleman, Latu etc..

It's going to be another 3 years (at least) until the entire current group of U-20 campaign players have matured at test level.

The next few seasons are going to be rebuilding years as the majority of your squad is under the age of 24.

In the meantime the Wallabies still have to play the All Blacks (3 times) and South Africa (2 times) each year.

During the Dean's era the Wallabies had to play NZ (4 times) and SA (3 times) per year, with no respite games against Argentina who didn't join the Rugby Championship until his final year.

Deans finished with a pretty impressive record considering.

We will see, Robbie.

 

[Blue]

Wallabies will win every test against the Sprinkboks this year

Ahem. Springbok-Lite if you won't mind.

 

[Up the Guts]

More interesting will be how far below Shag’s win % Foster is.

 

[rodha]

For the record, I really hope to see the Wallabies thrive under Rennie. Australian rugby needs to be competitive again for NZ's sake. I'm just weary of how Deans was treated, and potentially seeing that repeated. Hopefully Rennie isn't used as a scapegoat this time around. I've been following Rennie's career for a long time and he has a very similar record and coaching path as Deans did (when he was appointed Wallabies coach).

However, there are some key differences in the process between Deans and Rennie's appointment:

1) The advantage Rennie appears to have is there seems to be an emphasis of alignment in Australian rugby now.

In Dean's autobiography he spoke of how the lack of alignment in Australian rugby was a major inhibitor in allowing him to have a greater control over his players and the Wallabies respective chances of success.

2) This time around the ARU have placed unprecedented emphasis on ensuring that they assembled the strongest and most experienced coaching team that was possible.

In 2008 the ARU didn't place much importance on who the assistants were because they had nabbed their 'man' Deans off NZ rugby and he was the best head coach available, it was assumed the master coach could do it all and didn't need strong assistants.

The inexperienced duo of Jim Williams and Richard Graham were thrust upon Deans as his Wallaby assistant coaches.

 

[Adam84]

Ahem. Springbok-Lite if you won't mind.

This is true, COVID lockdowns and lack of rugby the past 6 month will have them starting behind Australia and New Zealand. Bok-lite be competitive, but I can’t see them getting wins over kiwis or Aussie’s

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Australian rugby needs to be competitive again for NZ's sake.

Incorrect. Australian rugby needs to be competitive again for Australia's sake.

 

[wamberal]

I have my reservations because you are missing 11 players from last year that moved on in 2019, including some key senior players such as Pocock, Genia, Kerevi, Arnold, Rodda, Coleman, Latu etc..

Under our new selection criteria we will get a couple of them back.

It's going to be another 3 years (at least) until the entire current group of U-20 campaign players have matured at test level.

.

A few of them look ready now. We don't need, or expect, that they will all make the grade to Test match rugby. Some won't. But the next year or two younger are doing pretty well, too, aren't they?

 

[Derpus]

How are the next lot of Under 20s doing?

 

[Up the Guts]

How are the next lot of Under 20s doing?

Aus Schools defeated NZ last year.

 

[TSR]

For the record, I really hope to see the Wallabies thrive under Rennie. Australian rugby needs to be competitive again for NZ's sake. I'm just weary of how Deans was treated, and potentially seeing that repeated. Hopefully Rennie isn't used as a scapegoat this time around. I've been following Rennie's career for a long time and he has a very similar record and coaching path as Deans did (when he was appointed Wallabies coach).

However, there are some key differences in the process between Deans and Rennie's appointment:

1) The advantage Rennie appears to have is there seems to be an emphasis of alignment in Australian rugby now.

In Dean's autobiography he spoke of how the lack of alignment in Australian rugby was a major inhibitor in allowing him to have a greater control over his players and the Wallabies respective chances of success.

2) This time around the ARU have placed unprecedented emphasis on ensuring that they assembled the strongest and most experienced coaching team that was possible.

In 2008 the ARU didn't place much importance on who the assistants were because they had nabbed their 'man' Deans off NZ rugby and he was the best head coach available, it was assumed the master coach could do it all and didn't need strong assistants.

The inexperienced duo of Jim Williams and Richard Graham were thrust upon Deans as his Wallaby assistant coaches.

I think some of your observations are fine. But if I recall correctly, when Deans was passed over for the ABs job one of the specific criticisms was he’d given no thought to his support staff.

The failings of RA are well known and there is clearly plenty of substance to Deans’ claims. There were plenty of other issues beyond his control too. But I think Deans certainly contributed to his own issues.

 

[rodha]

I think some of your observations are fine. But if I recall correctly, when Deans was passed over for the ABs job one of the specific criticisms was he’d given no thought to his support staff.

The failings of RA are well known and there is clearly plenty of substance to Deans’ claims. There were plenty of other issues beyond his control too. But I think Deans certainly contributed to his own issues.

According to Deans he wasn't informed the applicant needed to front with his full-list of support staff, the subsequent hostile nature of the interview and the panel's questions only further reinforced his impression that the outcome had already been determined.

When pressed on the topic of support staff by the NZRU panel.. Vern Cotter, Wayne Smith, Colin Cooper and Pat Lam were just a few individuals Deans indicated that he could work with.

I thought Robbie did a fantastic job with the Wallabies - no one could have expected to anything with the mighty Al Baxter and Matt Dunning. You guys had the front row of a park bench of pensioners!

 

[qwerty51]

Al Baxter and Matt Dunning's last tests were both in 09..

Robbie knew how to beat SA. I'll give him that.

 

[rodha]

Robbie knew how to beat SA. I'll give him that.

Robbie Deans also won 8/9 of his test matches against Wales.

Including a 3-0 whitewash of the 2012 Grand Slam winning Welsh side.

Deans also won 4/6 test matches against England during his tenure FYI.

 

[qwerty51]

He also lost to Scotland twice.

 

[rodha]

He also lost to Scotland twice.

Cheika did too unfortunately.

But if we are going into the specifics of those matches..

You'd have to say there was quite an element of poor fortune involved in those two results.

The first loss on the EOYT in 2009 Matt Giteau missed a bloomin' sitter conversion on the stroke of full-time. This was despite the Wallabies completely dominating Scotland for the large majority of that game.

The second loss involved a flippin' typhoon which descended upon Newcastle Stadium hours before the match had started. Captain Pocock was treated for hypothermia after 80 minutes in the freezing, gale-force winds and sheets of horizontal rain.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Wallabies had very limited prep for that match because Rugby Australia stuffed up the scheduling, I recall leaving Robbie Deans with only 3 days with the Australian players in camp.

Bear in mind the former was a 1 point loss and the latter a 3 point loss.

Meanwhile in 2017 Cheika lead the Wallabies to a 7 point loss to Scotland in Sydney with ample preparation time.

Later in the year Cheika's Wallabies chalked up the highest losing margin against Scotland in 93 years losing 53-24.

 

[dru]

Cheika did too unfortunately.

But if we are going into the specifics of those matches..

You'd have to say there was quite an element of poor fortune involved in those two results.

The first loss on the EOYT in 2009 Matt Giteau missed a bloomin' sitter conversion on the stroke of full-time. This was despite the Wallabies completely dominating Scotland for the large majority of that game.

The second loss involved a flippin' typhoon which descended upon Newcastle Stadium hours before the match had started. Captain Pocock was treated for hypothermia after 80 minutes in the freezing, gale-force winds and sheets of horizontal rain.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Wallabies had very limited prep for that match because Rugby Australia stuffed up the scheduling, I recall leaving Robbie Deans with only 3 days with the Australian players in camp.

Bear in mind the former was a 1 point loss and the latter a 3 point loss.

Meanwhile in 2017 Cheika lead the Wallabies to a 7 point loss to Scotland in Sydney with ample preparation time.

Later in the year Cheika's Wallabies chalked up the highest losing margin against Scotland in 93 years losing 53-24.

I fail to see how any of this is on topic. Start a new thread, something like “Fuck me how good are Kiwis”. And leave me out of it.

Good riddance Cheika, good riddance Dingo.