Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[dru]

I think Cheika and his acolytes will make two changes for the test at Dunedin; TK for Kerevi and TPN for Moore (though that is probably a bit more problematic as they might want to finish with TPN).

Bearing in mind what I perceive to be weaknesses, particularly with the backrow and the defensive patterns in the backline, and being limited to the existing squad I'd prefer to see:

Sio, TPN, Ala'alatoa, Arnold, Coleman, Hanigan, McMahon, Timani, Genia, Foley, Speight, Hodge, TK, Folau, DHP.

Bench : Uelese, Faulkner, Kepu, Douglas, Hooper, Powell, Meakes, Beale.

From outside the squad, I would prefer to see Higgers at 6, Lance at 10.

Add in "outside the squad" and that's pretty much how I would have started. Right now though, we are in shit creek and have more mud to swill through. Hail be the great Cheika.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The bench would also mostly stay unchanged. You can argue for Kuridrani over Kerevi, neither way bothers me, however I dont accept the Kerevi's issue were more that the strategy D dance. If Hunt is available, I'd drop one from the 23 - take your pick.

It's not the selection group I would have started with, but last week was not the players' issue, it was Cheika's. And we have only a few days, so no choice but show faith in the group, work through the strategy, and hope for more familiarity from the group with the strategy.

It isn't going to be pretty, but maybe a touch less ugly will have to do.

To be fair to Cheika, the strategy may ultimately prove perfect. In time. With familiarity. The implementation/development/launching has been crap.

I accept your take on Cheika- his time should be well and truly over. But to absolve Kerevi of all responsibility for his missed tackles ignores the fact that he was also missing a lot in Super for the Reds. He does have a problem atm, which might be related to playing at 13, but for whatever reason his tackling is below par. TK must replace him in the starting position.

 

[gel]

I think Kuridrani has to be the 13 this week.

Whatever the defensive plan was supposed to be, having Kerevi try to run around the entire state of NSW in some sort of cover defence has proven that he doesn't fit that role or that plan.

I have NFI if Kuridrani can do what is required if the ABs have the same amount of attacking ball as they did in that first half - but I know that Kerevi can't.

Foley and Beale just need to work on not giving over the ball so much so the wtf defence pattern isn't as much of an issue.

Also all players to defend.

 

[Braveheart81]

I just want our 10 to defend at flyhalf, our 12 to defend at inside centre, our 13 to defend at outside centre, our wings to defend our wide and our fullback to cover from the back, with our backrow covering.

Leave our wingers and fullback to look at the counter attack opportunities from opposition kicks. If they can't, then find others that can.

Agreed.

Maybe when Horne was on the wing and was at his defensive best there was a case for moving him to somewhere where he got to make a lot of tackles.

That isn't the case anymore. None of our backs are unbelievable defensive players.

They should all be defending in their primary position and keeping it as simple as possible.

Start with a structure where players know their role quite simply and should be in a position to make a tackle. If they get beaten or run over too frequently then we either replace that player or find a workaround.

I don't think any of these players are awful defensively. Let's give them simpler defensive roles and back their ability to make their tackles.

 

[dru]

I accept your take on Cheika- his time should be well and truly over. But to absolve Kerevi of all responsibility for his missed tackles ignores the fact that he was also missing a lot in Super for the Reds. He does have a problem atm, which might be related to playing at 13, but for whatever reason his tackling is below par. TK must replace him in the starting position.

I'm OK with swapping the Ks but would personally stick with Kerevi.

Cheika's time is not, unfortunately over. We have no alternate. Best we can hope is to stick with his strategy and selections and hope that it melds with enough wasted tests.

 

[dru]

@Reg and BH

I don't have a problem with protecting a valuable attacking player in D. Or two. Just not with the current complexity where 4 or 5 backs move somewhere else. And the somewhere else changes depending on where you are on the field. Too complex.

Right now though we should at least be protecting Beale and Foley. Simplify the rest.

 

[Braveheart81]

@Reg and BH

I don't have a problem with protecting a valuable attacking player in D. Or two. Just not with the current complexity where 4 or 5 backs move somewhere else. And the somewhere else changes depending on where you are on the field. Too complex.

Right now though we should at least be protecting Beale and Foley. Simplify the rest.

I'm not that convinced we need to do anything complicated.

Clearly you don't want those guys making a tonne of tackles but I also don't think it's any better trying to hide them from everything. Invariably they still have to make tackles.

Realistically the two major times we're talking about are off first phase plays. On a scrum I'd prefer Foley covering Barrett and Beale covering SBW than trying to cover Reiko Ioane on the wing etc.

Maybe you put Beale on Crotty and give Kuridrani SBW as he is more likely to make a dominant tackle but I don't necessarily see that it is better to try and have them out of the play altogether. They have to be defending somewhere.

On any lineout that is less than 7 players, Hooper and/or others will be out in the backline and ideally you want them defending near the fly half/12 channel as one of your strongest defenders.

There's no defensive structure which advocates that you want your 10 topping the tackle count. I don't think we are helping ourselves by having an overly complex structure. At the end of the day all our backline players regardless of their defensive ability are needing to make a reasonable number of tackles. Surely their chances of succeeding at that job are best when the task is made simplest.

 

[jimmydubs]

I'd like to see Meakes-kurindrani at 12-13. Beale to FB. Meakes tackling stat's don't reflect what you see in matches imho. He's a hunt type player for mine.can also pass and is aware and has decent skills.
Then only have to hide Foley if we want or tell him to stand firm. With good defenders around him I'm sure hed do fine.

Apparently they bulk manufactured all the Wallaby 10 jerseys to only fit Foley so no point contemplating alternatives

 

[cyclopath]

Foley has decent enough technique at actual tackling, but is just not that big and not a dominant tackler. The various videos floating around show how lost several players were at times seemingly not knowing where to be with that "system", Foley, Kerevi, Rona all included especially.
I agree just have players defend in their positions, and supplement at times with backrowers as needed / when appropriate. Saturday was just a complex clusterfuck of a system.
If they want counter-attacking options then have Beale and Folau as wing and fullback in whichever numbers you want with whoever the other winger is and stick with that.
If all options were fit I'd love to see Hunt and Kuridrani in the centres.

 

[wamberal]

Hunt would have been the first player I would have picked. Put him anywhere. But definitely he would have been superb at 12. Bugger.

 

[Lorenzo]

@Reg and BH

I don't have a problem with protecting a valuable attacking player in D. Or two. Just not with the current complexity where 4 or 5 backs move somewhere else. And the somewhere else changes depending on where you are on the field. Too complex.

Right now though we should at least be protecting Beale and Foley. Simplify the rest.

I guess when we unearth a valuable attacking player, we can talk about hiding him.

I think hiding the fly half is feasible. Any more than that and youre creating gaps for the opposition.

The current system is too complex for Stephen Hawking, nevermind the kind of brainiac the wallaby jersey attracts

 

[The Red Baron]

Foley has decent enough technique at actual tackling, but is just not that big and not a dominant tackler. The various videos floating around show how lost several players were at times seemingly not knowing where to be with that "system", Foley, Kerevi, Rona all included especially.
I agree just have players defend in their positions, and supplement at times with backrowers as needed / when appropriate. Saturday was just a complex clusterfuck of a system.
If they want counter-attacking options then have Beale and Folau as wing and fullback in whichever numbers you want with whoever the other winger is and stick with that.
If all options were fit I'd love to see Hunt and Kuridrani in the centres.

Yep, I agree. How many flyhalfs are actually dominant tacklers? As long as he can stick with a man long enough for the loosies to bring him down, that's enough. A good loosie should live in that channel with Foley anyway.

I'd also like to see a centre pairing of Hunt and Kuridrani.

 

[Joe Blow]

I would hope that TPN starts at 2, Timani starts at 8 and TK comes in for Kerevi. Our attack and go forward were also much better with these 3 on the field, not just the defense.
I would also have a different lock on the bench to offer some physical impact. I actually reckon Simmons was OK though last week.

After this test Cheika should re-assess his squad and probably make a few changes. We need a couple of 6s and a hooker who are ready to play or have played at this level. Hopefully Naivalu is close to full fitness as well.

 

[Joe Blow]

Of course it does not help that the ARU is a shambolic hot mess right now. They most likely do not have the spine to make the calls over Cheikas head that need to be made.
I am not talking about his head being on the block necessarily, but more his bosses demanding that there be transparent changes made in the direction that the Wallabies are going.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Dane Coles finally gets his 50th cap, nine months after his 49th:

All Blacks (15-1): Damian McKenzie, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (captain), Sam Cane, Liam Squire, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Joe Moody. Reserves (16-23): Codie Taylor, Kane Hames, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown.

Some changes to the bench with Taylor, Hames & SBarrett in for Harris, Crockett (head injury protocols) & Romano, respectively.

Hopefully they've learnt the lessons from last week, those being:

1. Keep Crotty out there until at least the 65 mark, and
2. Don't make 4-5 subs all at once.

 

[TSR]

Should it really be that hard to ditch Greys defensive system.

Just say to the players - 'hey guys, when we turn over the ball or it is the other teams feed, just stay exactly where you are and tackle'.

 

[Brumby Jack]

New Zealand


1. Joe Moody (29)
2. Dane Coles (49)
3. Owen Franks (95)
4. Brodie Retallick (65)
5. Samuel Whitelock (89)
6. Liam Squire (10)
7. Sam Cane (45)
8. Kieran Read (101) - Captain
9. Aaron Smith (63)
10. Beauden Barrett (54)
11. Rieko Ioane (6)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (37)
13. Ryan Crotty (28)
14. Ben Smith (63)
15. Damian McKenzie (3)

16. Codie Taylor (20)
17. Kane Hames (1)
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi (5)
19. Scott Barrett (8)
20. Ardie Savea (17)
21. TJ Perenara (34)
22. Lima Sopoaga (8)
23. Anton Lienert-Brown (14)

 

[dru]

Should it really be that hard to ditch Greys defensive system.

Just say to the players - 'hey guys, when we turn over the ball or it is the other teams feed, just stay exactly where you are and tackle'.

It's not Grey. It's Cheika. They're out of position in attack. You'd need to ditch Cheika's backline attack formation.

Actually Grey does add to it with different D structure in different parts of the field and depending on if it is a set piece and what sort of set piece.

 

[TSR]

In other words - they've over complicated it.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Simmons played well when he got his chance. Hooper was poor as was McMahon.

Coleman was pretty good but Arnold did little.

Like to see Coleman, Simmo and Timani start and Folau to the wing (although that will not happen).

Unfortunately would still go with Moore to start with Taf to replace at the 50 minute mark (as opposed to the other way around)

Reckon the Wallabies won't leak 40+ points in the first half this week but the AB's will continue their dominance.

Another tough day at the office coming up