Wallabies vs England, Perth

[David]

I say we try a Wallaby backrow of 6. McCalman, 7. Pocock and 8. Elsom. Thoughts?

McCalman had a strong game, but I think its too early to start talking Wallabies starting, maybe a bench spot. He reminds me of a young MMM.

 

[Lee Grant]

Thoughts are that the front row is more critical. And let's not talk about props in general - it is loose head props we need, at least whilst Ma'afu is still healthy.

 

[Scarfman]

My thought is that Robbie will keep Rocky at 6 no matter what, and play either Hoiles or Brown at 8.

 

[en_force_er]

Any chance Cruze Ah-Nau is going to kill the U20 tournament and come into Wallaby LH contention?

I know it won't happen but looking to different avenues is literally our only option right now. Converting Weeks is apparently not as good of an option as I thought (I'm glad Robbie tried it though).

 

[RugbyReg]

England must be shaking in their boots.

The Qantas Wallabies' front-row crisis has Test selectors considering a shock about-face and reinstating overlooked veterans Al Baxter and Matt Dunning.

Australian forwards coach and selector Jim Williams on Wednesday admitted seasoned duo Baxter and Dunning may be called up to bolster the injury-hit Australian scrum for Saturday night's Test against England at Subiaco Oval.

Coach Robbie Deans has taken a youth policy with his props looking forward to next year's Rugby World Cup but the prolonged loss of Benn Robinson (broken arm) and Ben Alexander (knee) have left the Wallabies scrum vulnerable.

Added to the concerns against the powerful English is the unavailability of hookers Stephen Moore (broken cheekbone) and Tatafu Polota-Nau (ankle, shoulder).

It would be a major surprise to see the likes of Waratah Baxter or Perth-based Dunning called into the Australian squad at the 11th hour but Williams felt an SOS needed to be explored with England sure to target his inexperienced front-row.

"It's something that we certainly have to look at," he said. "No decisions have been made yet.

"We have to look closely at the game and sit down and nut out exactly which way we want to go.

"The World Cup is always in the back of your mind but there is a Test match this weekend and we have to make first and foremost it's taken care of and we cover all bases."

Williams also indicated teenage sensation James O'Connor had played himself into contention for a starting berth after scoring a hat-trick in 48 minutes on the field for the Australian Barbarians in their 28-draw against an England XV on Tuesday night.

"When opportunities are created people take them, you see that all the time, and James was amongst that," he said.

 

[fatprop]

I would be much more confident of Saturady with Ma'afu or Baxter starting at THP with Fairbrother or Holmes at LHP, Dunning is an decent THP, but not great at LHP

The thing is Baxter hasn't been playing for Norths ....................

 

[Scotty]

Thoughts are that the front row is more critical. And let's not talk about props in general - it is loose head props we need, at least whilst Ma'afu is still healthy.

Ma'afu isn't exactly world class, so it is pretty critical we have more competition at THP as well.

Incidently what does everyone think about Alexanders scrummaging at THP compared to LHP? Is one better than the other, or both pretty even?

 

[MrMouse]

So it's ok to throw in an uncapped rookie who might only be 51% fit but bloody unfair to chuck in a guy there with no recent/professional experience?

Yes

I s'pose you do make a fair point, but 51% fit in your own position you can still potplant (injury type pending). So we're agreed let's just go for Tilse, as a rookie with little recent experience who until the arse end of the S14 had never been more than 51% fit?

 

[MrMouse]

Alexanders scrummaging at THP compared to LHP?

I think he's considerably stronger at THP, no doubt at all in my mind it's his strongest position. He was being raped and pillaged at LHP against Fiji, and all through the S14...

England must be shaking in their boots.

Sigh.

Once again the door has snapped shut on Australia's most-capped prop, Al Baxter, with Wallabies selectors opting to throw a greenhorn front-row into the deep end against England's menacing pack on Saturday night.

With the Wallabies facing their worst front-row injury crisis in recent history, forwards coach and selector Jim Williams said it was worth considering sending an SOS for Baxter or fellow veteran Matt Dunning to make an international return at Subiaco Oval.

But by the end of Wednesday, coach Robbie Deans decided not to call in any replacements to take on the powerful English which will target Australia's rusty front-row rookies.

It was all too apparent in the Australian Barbarians' 28-28 draw with England's second-stringers on Tuesday night it's going to be a searching test for the young Wallabies scrum.

Pekahou Cowan, in line to start at loose-head on Saturday night, had a tough time of it while Laurie Weeks was sin-binned late when moved across the scrum from tight-head.

Whatever the combination the selectors finally agree upon, the most caps Australia's front-row will sport will be six.

Rising Queensland rake Saia Fainga'a will make his run-on debut with hookers Stephen Moore and Tatafu Polota-Nau sidelined.

Cowan and Salesi Ma'afu are likely to prop up the scrum, but Deans could punt on an all-Reds front row with Weeks and Ben Daley - who are both coming back from injury.

Whatever way, overlooked Waratah Baxter and Perth-based Dunning have been left high and dry again with the selectors not keen to perform an about-face following serious injuries to Ben Alexander and Benn Robinson.

"That's a matter for the selectors and they will do what they think is best but I can only hope for a phone call," the 69-Test capped Baxter told AAP.

"Hopefully those blokes will be back on the park sooner rather than later but I can't really comment more than that."

Williams admitted England's big, grizzled front-row would ruthlessly target his youngsters, and felt it worth considering more seasoned props.

"The World Cup is always in the back of your mind but there is a Test match this weekend and we have to make first and foremost it's taken care of and we cover all bases," he said Wednesday morning."

"I hope (England's physicality) is evident to the (Test) boys - it's not something you can just walk into."

While Deans and Williams have their headaches up front, they also have a dilemma at the back - but a far healthier one following James O'Connor's hat-trick for the Barbarians.

Deans said O'Connor couldn't do any more in his 25-point, 48-minute display to unseat Kurtley Beale from the No.15 jersey after he scored two tries of his own in the 49-3 win over Fiji.

The 19-year-old utility back says he's still happy to be picked anywhere but is enjoying the extra space at fullback more after learning from his mistakes in the position in losses to the All Blacks in Wellington and Tokyo.

"The tests last year were a big learning curve for me," he said.

"I think I've nutted out the fullback position now after being found out a few times last year."

I think some people have quickly forgotten more recent history:

England 14 Australia 28

The Wallabies served up some sweet revenge with a gritty 28-14 victory over England in today's Cook Cup Test at Twickenham.

An inspired second-half revival and a record goalkicking performance from five-eighth Matt Giteau were enough to give the Wallabies their first win over England at rugby's spiritual home since 2004.

The backs-to-the-wall triumph, after the Wallabies had fallen 14-12 behind in the 51st minute, was a payback of sorts for England's shock World Cup quarter-final win over Australia in France 13 months ago.

And it was an especially satisfying win for the maligned Australian scrum, which scored a clear points victory over the vaunted English pack which had mauled the Wallabies front row in Marseille, and equally so at Twickenham in 2005.

In a powerful display, the Wallabies forwards - led up front by props Al Baxter and Benn Robinson and hooker and man of the match Stephen Moore - were awarded three scrum penalties, and, tellingly, also secured two scrums against the feed.

England loosehead Andrew Sheridan, the architect behind his side's World Cup win in Marseille, cut a dejected figure after being replaced with 13 minutes remaining, his pride battered and his side's scrum on its knees.

 

[MrMouse]

Oh, sorry if that last post was a bit long and quotey, I'll edit it if you yell loud enough.

 

[the gambler]

Sigh.
I think some people have quickly forgotten more recent history:

I was at that game and it was one of my more satisfying rugby memories. The best bit was having a few beers in a pub afterwards with a couple of players. One drunk idiot tried to tell us that the only reason we won was because of the ref and from where he sat our front row was shitter than it had ever been. One of the players in question calmly said "well from where I was we looked to be going ok" and walked away. Wasnt till the blokes mate told him who he was that he shut up.

However that was a long time ago and I cant see us coming up with a similar performance this weekend.

 

[Reddy!]

Mr Mouse, that game you cite had Baxter, Moore, Robinson, and TPN on the bench I presume.

None of those players will be there against England this weekend.

 

[Groucho]

I don't get all these journalists hyping Cowan as being a likely starter for Saturday. Sounds like typical Aussie rugby journalism to me: an agenda to be taken with a dose of salts.

 

[Viking]

Whens the line-up announced? Hope o'connor takes the fullback spot

 

[fatprop]

I don't get all these journalists hyping Cowan as being a likely starter for Saturday. Sounds like typical Aussie rugby journalism to me: an agenda to be taken with a dose of salts.

As they said on the Rugby club, cowan is our most experienced prop with 4 tests .....................................

 

[Reddy!]

Wow did anyone watch The Rugby Club tonight? In summary: Our backs are awesome (except for Burgess), so much depth, how good are we? ...Forwards, meh!
Lee Grant would be rolling in his hypothetical grave.

Also, Brendan Cannon complimented Robbie Deans, saying "Robbie is willing to sacrifice winning results by developing players in the international arena". This was said in reference to the Baba's throwing away the lead due to poor tactics in substitutions made, but is also relevant to Robbie's selection policy throughout his reign.
Personally, I fundamentally disagree with this and believe the Wallabies should be trying to win every game they go into - and that their ability to win the game should not be compromised through the selection of certain players. Test rugby is the wrong place to be starting from scratch and developing the amount of players that Deans has - as a result we have seen 0 results despite being promised the Wallabies to return to their winning ways. The part that annoys me the most is that many rugby commentators, professional and amateur, believe that blooding young, inadequate players and sacrificing results now, will automatically lead to World Cup success in 2011. It just isn't that straight forward and there is every chance Australia won't make it past the quarter finals. South Africa, NZ, France etc are going to have just as strong teams come the World Cup and it is arrogant to suggest that success will ultimately come in the form of the World Cup trophy because of the current youth policy - especially because it has come at such a cost to the Wallaby brand, and supporters, who are thirsty for wins.

What's the point in playing in the Tri-Nations and Bledisloe if all we are really gunning for is a trophy that is harder to win than the current ones we keep losing.

 

[MrMouse]

Mr Mouse, that game you cite had Baxter, Moore, Robinson, and TPN on the bench I presume.

None of those players will be there against England this weekend.

I was specifically referring to the article above that, where Baxter ought to be in there, even Williams mentioned bringing him in, but Robbie, aided by some media, is very short-sighted re:scrummaging.

 

[Viking]

@Reddy!.... I agree with your point that wins should come first over developing youth for the world cup. However i think with a Aus Baa's game i say experiment all you want, who bloody cares if your lose as long as you get some answers. IMO He was right in experimenting in that game, the players dont even get a wallabies test cap so really what would the point be in putting waugh and/or baxter into the sqaud over a younger player with more potential. I hope Dean's picks the best starting 15 on form, and keeps the Baa Baa's or Aus A as a developement tool.

 

[Lee Grant]

Wow did anyone watch The Rugby Club tonight? In summary: Our backs are awesome (except for Burgess), so much depth, how good are we? ...Forwards, meh!

Lee Grant would be rolling in his hypothetical grave.

Premature though probably not by much. I was writhing in my armchair though in pain listening to it.

They missed the elephant in the room and saw a mouse.

 

[Nusadan]

They missed the elephant in the room and saw a mouse.

Referring to Dunning, weren't you?