Wallabies vs England, Sydney

[Groucho]

England deserved to win. They played better than us and apart from a few trademark tries by us, the Poms were the better backline . Whoulda thunk?

The scrums were a huge improvement, but that we were still penalised so often highlights a problem that we may struggle to fix. Many of the scrum penalties were given purely on suspicion. Some of them, like Daley losing his footing and being pinged for collapsing right in front of the ref, were outright gifts. Perception is a harsh taskmaster. We have some work to do.

We're also having real problems at the restart. England exploited the offside at the kickoff beautifully, only being pinged once for it. They often arrived in the catching zone before the ball. Other sides will do the same, backing their scrum if they do get caught. What is the answer?

 

[fatprop]

Many of the scrum penalties were given purely on suspicion. Some of them, like Daley losing his footing and being pinged for collapsing right in front of the ref, were outright gifts.

They deserved to be pinged, the dominant scrum deserves the penalties, Daley was losing his footing running backwards and the scrum was generally crumpling again. It was embarrassing to see those idiots giving shit after one scrum, cringe worthy.

 

[saulih]

The English in my mind were familiar with the extremely slow cadence of this particular ref's scrum calling (I presume that he is always slow with crutch, tuch, pau...). The first scrum they were patient, while Australia engaged early. I think that shows that they were primed for the ref... It put Australia on the wrong side of the ref when it came to scrums.

Now that first scrum penalty lands completely lands in the lap of # 8 - Brown. With his head firmly stuck between the second rows arses he heard the "Pause" engage as "Engage". Watching it over, he is clearly the instigator of the shove.

I don't think that the scrum was a huge factor in the game this week. The backs on both sides clearly shifted the focus away from the forwards and onto themselves.

I would be interested to know the scrum count compared between last week and this week. To me it just seemed that their was not as many...

 

[RedsHappy]

I don't think saying "many of these players haven't played much rugby with each other" really cuts it as an excuse. The All Blacks have a quite a few new faces in their team yet are thrashing teams like it was 2005. And SA have had good victories so far decent fielding some wacky line ups.

Reddy, yes, a crucial observation.

But, as you know from my views elsewhere, there is evident today a remarkable shift in the nature of Australian rugby patriotism (vs say 8-10 years ago).

There is almost a kind of emerging underlying consensus that 'improvement is what counts'. 'Terrific to see all these talented youngsters being tried out in Tests (irrespective of results)'. 'We're building a platform for the future'. 'Looking good for next year'. 'If only we had better refs'. 'Deans needs time to nurture a young team on the way up'. 'We lost so many great players a few years ago, no wonder we need a few years to rebuild'.

We are not demanding outstanding performances today. We are forever charitable. Absolute standards of skill and discipline expected of a national team in a icon sport coached by the elite at great expense (de facto funded by fans) seem less expected than ever before. We appear to view top line coaching as predominantly about selecting individual players, and not about team consistency, depth of skill and discipline, ruthless winning team culture, excellence under sustained pressure.

And we don't want to look left and right across the Indian and Tasman oceans and ask: how is it, in the last 5 years (or more), that the Boks and ABs have managed to develop deeper tracts of rugby excellence so clearly superior to our own? Yet these countries have no greater affluence, sporting cultures, will-to-win, than our own. They certainly incur top player injuries like we do, they have to retire older players like we do. They have to bring new players on, like we do. They have passionate fans, like we do.

Is it an unfathomable mystery?

 

[naza]

They deserved to be pinged, the dominant scrum deserves the penalties, Daley was losing his footing running backwards and the scrum was generally crumpling again. It was embarrassing to see those idiots giving shit after one scrum, cringe worthy.

That was unbelievable and excruciating to watch. Sums up the mentality of the side - let's pat ourselves on the back after 1 scrum. Disgraceful reaction.

What concerns me is not so much the scrums, kick re-starts, lack of counter ruck or goal kicking. Its the soft underbelly. The lack of mental toughness under pressure. The lack of patience, trying to score off first phase every time. The absence of disciplined aggression. These guys have to realise they're not entitled to shit - you have to work for it, every minute of every game.

I think the Wallabies will lose to England. I think the scrum will get raped. We will get penalised off the face of the planet. I reckon the Poms have taken so much encouragement from game 1, that they will belt us all day at the ruck. They know the Aussies don't like it up 'em. You cannot win rugby games if you are getting belted. I don't care what the SIW crowd think - they don't know rugby.

Wow, this naza bloke knows his stuff !! Did anyone other than myself or Blue tip an England win ?

 

[DPK]

They deserved to be pinged, the dominant scrum deserves the penalties, Daley was losing his footing running backwards and the scrum was generally crumpling again. It was embarrassing to see those idiots giving shit after one scrum, cringe worthy.

What if the scrum achieves dominance through illegal tactics, like not binding correctly?

 

[RedsHappy]

.....
What concerns me is not so much the scrums, kick re-starts, lack of counter ruck or goal kicking. Its the soft underbelly. The lack of mental toughness under pressure. The lack of patience, trying to score off first phase every time. The absence of disciplined aggression. These guys have to realise they're not entitled to shit - you have to work for it, every minute of every game.

Naza, I am shooting myself for travelling down from Brisbane just to see this game. (Btw, can you believe that in our Platinum seats - aisle 411 - you could not hear the stadium commentary and announcements - what a bad joke that place is for top rugby.)

Just adding to your valid points was the soft-to-very soft nature of the two England tries; the lapses in forward tactical preparation/training implied by the poor defence permitting these tries seem to indicate complacency and a reckless conviction that all that was required last night was better scrum work and, further, that there was no likelihood the English backs could or would improve. Again, attitudinal, team culture and mental toughness issues. But I admonish myself for expecting more; as Growden notes today, this maddening incapacity to keep winning consistently has been the consistent element in the Wallabies play for years now - the growing sadness is that there is no breakthrough to improvement.

 

[Reddy!]

naza, why are you so smart!

The result doesn't really surprise me. I'm almost to the point where I don't care anymore. This arrogant and complacent Wallaby side and coaching staff just aren't doing it for me anymore.

EDIT: That might be a bit of an overreaction but I am just feeling pretty clueless as to where this team is heading.

 

[Lindommer]

naza, why are you so smart!

You trying to get banned, Reddy!?

 

[RedsHappy]

Wow, this naza bloke knows his stuff !! Did anyone other than myself or Blue tip an England win ?

I think it's fair to say you were in the tiny minority!

The oz mainline media generally assessed that our backline was so vastly superior that, with just a little Oz scrum improvement, England would be readily defeated. See Greg Clark's pre-game prediction as a breezy and happiness-making example. The England rugby media were not much different overall, just a bit more hopeful that salvation might still occur. We seem to be prone to 'the one game win drug hit' these days. Don't look deeper, don't worry too much, things are improving.

 

[the gambler]

Wow, this naza bloke knows his stuff !! Did anyone other than myself or Blue tip an England win ?

My bets for last night.... Ended up about 78pounds in front. But even I must admit i expected Australia to win, just thought those odds were too good not to cash in on.

Fixtures 19 June / New Zealand v Wales / Wales +10.5pts New Zealand -10.5pts Back
08:34 C 1.18 5.60 1.18 1.01
Fixtures 19 June / Australia v England / First Scoring Play England Penalty Back
08:33 C 2.94 10.00 2.94 19.94
Fixtures 19 June / Australia v England / To Score A Try Quade Cooper (Australia) Lay
08:33 C 4 5.00 4 5.00
Fixtures 19 June / Australia v England / Winning Margin Australia under 12.5pts Back
08:32 C 3 2.00 3 (2.00)
Fixtures 19 June / Australia v England / Winning Margin England under 12.5pts Back
08:32 C 6.4 10.00 6.4 54.00

 

[OZGOD]

Our inconsistency curse strikes again. After our backs showed promise last weekend this weekend it's gone pear shaped. Just like the European tour last year - great result against England then we fail to win against Ireland (fair enough they're a decent side) and fark it up against Scotland. It's three steps forward two steps back one step forward two steps back and we're back to square zero type stuff. Hopefully these guys eventually learn to maintain a level of performance that's at a consistently high level rather than blowing hot and cold.

 

[fatprop]

What if the scrum achieves dominance through illegal tactics, like not binding correctly?

means nothing, scrummaging is about cheating if you can, every prop does what he can to take the dominant position.

Look at Robinson, he never usually binds legally, he takes the hit without binding using his outside hand for balance on the ground, he then lifts the hand to bind and drives up into the THP's sternum

 

[spectator]

Disappointing result. I was waiting for the Wallabies to go up a gear and they never did. Fair play to England, they outenthused us and were the better side on the night.

 

[the gambler]

The English Media love to give player ratings after each match. Anyone here want to give the Aussies a shot? I would need to watch a replay before I did it with any confidence.

 

[Newb]

rugbyreg has a piece on the front page (blog).

 

[cyclopath]

Naza,
Having agreed with you on the forum, I didn't have the balls to put England in my tips and went for the Wobbs against my better judgement. They didn't polish the turd hard enough.
Kudos to naza the prescient!

 

[Nusadan]

And we don't want to look left and right across the Indian and Tasman oceans and ask: how is it, in the last 5 years (or more), that the Boks and ABs have managed to develop deeper tracts of rugby excellence so clearly superior to our own? Yet these countries have no greater affluence, sporting cultures, will-to-win, than our own. They certainly incur top player injuries like we do, they have to retire older players like we do. They have to bring new players on, like we do. They have passionate fans, like we do.

Is it an unfathomable mystery?

No mystery there...Australia has two competing winter codes (apart from soccer) to that of rugby compared to none in either SA or NZ...so in reality we are punching above our weight then...

Basically the only solution would be to resurrect the ARC to provide an alternative pathway to the countless talented athletes we seem to produce...

 

[RugbyFuture]

the english do have 4 times the amount of registered players than us...

 

[chief]

the english do have 4 times the amount of registered players than us...

Try like 9 times