Wallabies vs England, Sydney

[Bowside]

1. Daley
2. TPN/Fainga'a
3. Ma'afu
4. Mumm
5. Sharpe
6. Rock
7. Pockock
8. Brown
9. Burgess. he deserves another shot
10. Cooper
11. Mitchell
12. Gits
13. Horne
14. Turner
15. Beale/JOC (James O'Connor)

16. Fainga'a/TPN
17. Baxter
18. Douglas
19. Hodgson
20. Genia
21. Barnes
22. JOC (James O'Connor)/Beale


Thats my side.
This is my full-strength side

1. Robinson
2. TPN
3. Alexander
4. Mumm
5. Sharpe
6. Rock
7. Pockock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Schmoo
12. Gits
13. Horne
14. Turner
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

16. Moore
17. Kepu
18. Douglas
19. Hodgson
20. Burgess
21. Barnes
22. Beale

Hahaha, obvious NSW bias. I dont agree with alot of those selections, but mostly i dont agree with Horwil not being in full strength side.

I think Genia should start and once we get on top, bring burgess on for another crack. Burgess has a good running game and is a strong defender, but his passing is no where near as good as Genia's, and also factor in the Cooper-Genia 'super combo'.

Is TPN back from injury?

 

[naza]

To be honest both players are just stand in's until Horwill is back to full fitness. It will be interesting to see who partners Horwill in the second row going into the WC. The old hand of sharpe is alway extended, and there is talk that vickerman might be coming back for another crack at the big time. Chisolm is a good player, but he seems to play his best rugby when he's playing for the brumbies against queensland. Of the younger guys, Kane Douglas is probibly the front runner, behind him are Symmons and Byrnes.

I like Douglas, would not be surprised if he ends up playing 50+ tests. But he's more of a light, 4 jumping type than the bruising, heavier tight lock we need.
Horwill ought to be that tight lock, so it worries me the Reds had him playing flanker.

Hmmm, who else can we add to the young lock list ? Pete Kimlin is injury prone but I have hopes for him. And I'm loving what Sitaleki Timani is doing for Southern Districts in club rugby - the guy is a beast and at 6'8" and 120 kgs has the right kind of size.

 

[RedsHappy]

Otherwise, swap Baxter to THP, Slipper on the bench and you have my team for this w/end.

It's a reckless act of Dean's stubbornness not to at least bring Baxter into the squad, and in the bench 7 say. First up, he's had a very solid S14, next, he'd been a good mentor/tutor for the young blokes (whom badly need it), third, if the Poms play better than last night (a credible possibility), make more tackles etc, and we have a repeat of last night's scrum horror story, we could quite easily lose the game (as we almost did last night) = disaster, losing to such a mediocre England on home soil.

So, some alteration to the core props must surely occur for Saturday. The dogmatic idea that 'we must have a youth and development policy come what may' has severe limits, as last night showed....and, anyway, do we think Henry is mad to keep Brad Thorn in the ABs? Of course not, the continuity, smarts, and exceptional physical skill of Thorn (35 yrs old) has been material to the ABs excellent W-L ratio of recent years.

The whole 'no Baxter, no Dunning, no Weeks' no call-in is a discredit to Deans in such circumstances as we are facing here.

 

[Reddy!]

I'm really afraid of playing the All Blacks and Springboks already; after the beltings they gave their opponents, who are better than England mind, it is clear they don't have too many weaknesses at all.

 

[RedsHappy]

I agree about Burgo. But maybe not 80 minutes. He deserves a chance to show if he can reproduce the Perthshire effort, so maybe 60 minuts or so. Genia needs a run to keep prevent cobwebs building up.

We recall that to some extent we have been here with Burgess before. When RD picked him up and propelled him forward in the 2008 selections, numerous excitements and bouquets arose from many quarters. I remember Nick F-J pronouncing around that time what a hit for Australia he thought Burgess could be, with just a bit more development, etc. Then into 2009, things started to fall off a cliff with erratic passing, 'stand back and consider matters' mindset at crucial rucks, etc. As though the big time was not making him bigger or better, sadly.

We'd be thrilled if now Burgess could 'stabilise' his game around the centrepiece of last night's generally excellent effort, which demonstrated Burgess' always-there potential. But please let's wait a bit before we place him on an equal footing with Sanchez.

 

[darkhorse]

Love this forum. I have been reading it for ages, but have taken a while to get involved.

Obviously scrums were horrible, but what to do? I think daly is one for the future, and will improve as he matures physically and mentally. The scrum seemed stronger once slipper came on so I'm inclined to think that he wasn't as bad as it seemed. Tho, his back seemed to fold under the immense pressure from the beggining.

I don't think ma'afu deserves another crack, mainly because he's 27 and i didn't reckon he was that great in s14. But i might be wrong.

Fainga'a is a hooker a bit in the mold of adam frier, good around the ground and hard-working, but a bit slight and not a strong scrummager compared to say TPN or Moore. In saying that I don't think it was his fault, he sufficiently good enough.

Give Slipper a go on the weekend again. I don't where this guy has come from but there isn't much else. Didn't he have like only two games for the reds and only start one? Also draft in Dan Palmer for the baabaas and see if he lives up to the hype. Weekes deserves a go. So does baxter actually, but who can blame deans being hesistant to recall him.

As others have said, the front row could use some extra weight behind them and Dean Mumm lacks it. As much as i like him, he's probably better suited to blindside. Brown was ok in the loose, but we need class, so should make for someone with potential land size like Leroy Houston. Also Brown wasn't great at the back of the scrum.

Anyway my team would be:

1. Slipper
2. TPN
3. Weekes
4. Sharpe
5. Chisholm will do for now
6. Mumm
7. Pockock
8. Elsom
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Giteau
13. Horne (Give him another go to find some great form. He hasn't been bad, but someone has got to make way for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and O'Connor, Mitchell and Ioane have been in great form)
14. Mitchell (surely deserves a place after his S14 form and saturday's game)
15. O'Connor (deservedly holds the spot over other comers. I was one of the guys calling for Hynes earlier on)

Reserves: Fainga'a, Fairbrother, Simmons/Douglass, Hoston, Burgess, Barnes/Beale (depending on beale's performance for baabaa's), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (work him into it. we don't wanna lose him for the season)

 

[TheRiddler]

I like Douglas, would not be surprised if he ends up playing 50+ tests. But he's more of a light, 4 jumping type than the bruising, heavier tight lock we need.

Victor Matfield : 2.00m - 108kg
Danie Rossouw : 1.98m - 119kg
Brad Thorn : 1.96m - 116kg
Anthony Boric : 2.00m - 110kg

Mark Chisholm : 1.97m - 112kg
Not So Sharpe : 2.00m - 115kg
Kane Douglas : 2.01m - 116kg

Not so sure if Douglas is that light? Biggest/Heaviest lock in the Wallabies and certainly up there in terms of his international 3N competition (Bakkies and Bekker aside)

 

[#1 Tah]

Two holes in your full strength squad #1. I really want Lachie to get a crack at a wallabies wing spot, and show us what all Tahs fans see every week, but he hasn't had that yet so can't really be in most peoples' sides above Ioane.
But Kepu? Are you serious, mate? I spent the whole year wishing the Rebs or someone, ANYONE would take him off our hands. Baxter, Weeks, Daley, Slipper, Yana, TILSE even would be above him in my pecking order. Eww.
Otherwise, swap Baxter to THP, Slipper on the bench and you have my team for this w/end.

Fixed. My worry for this week is that if hynes gets the flick over gits/barnes then we have no winger backup. Unless AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is back and that way he can cover for horne as well.

 

[RedsHappy]

I'm really afraid of playing the All Blacks and Springboks already; after the beltings they gave their opponents, who are better than England mind, it is clear they don't have too many weaknesses at all.

Indeed, spot on. It strikes me that many Wallaby fans have over recent years suffered from decreasing standards in what they enjoy and expect from our national team. The many breezily happy and congratulatory posts re last night's dancing-with-disaster affair more than ever convinces me of that. Many inexcusable flaws in our aggregate capability were masked last night by poor and mediocre performances by the England backs, and, further, even the England forwards were not quite their usual selves at breakdown time. The point being that these flaws (eg the embarrassing number of unforced and forced handling errors) will yet again be very expensive when we play in the Tris (just as they were in 2008 and 2009) and as we are ruthlessly attacked by these teams which are light years better than 2010 England. So few observers these days seem to demand and scream for very high levels of excellence from the Wallabies, and/or understand that such is crucial if Australian rugby is going to prosper (which it is certainly not today sadly) once more, and bring deep pride in the G&G (versus the sort of damaged and uncertain affection we feel today). Let alone win RWCs again.

As Ella often has good cause to say in his column, it's remarkable how often the Wallabies of recent years still do not appear to have _consistently_ mastered the very basics of the game.

 

[Langthorne]

6-8 months before Ben Robinson was dominating Pommie scrums he was dropped to the Junior Waratahs.

Is 6 months is a long time is rugby and there is more than a year till the World Cup. I have no doubt that we will see some genuine contenders emerge from this lot of front rowers and thus I think Robbie should persist with them, they are the future.

If you are you saying 'drop them to a level they can cope with then bring them back better for it' then I agree. If you are saying 'keep them in the Wallaby side despite the example of Robinson' then I definitely disagree.

Yeah, because being anally raped with your own head [again] in front of millions of viewers doesn't hurt your confidence at all...........

Fixed


The only changes in selection I'd like to see are the return of any injured first choice players, and the selection of the best available Australian props (ie not the same guys as the last test).

 

[en_force_er]

If you are you saying 'drop them to a level they can cope with then bring them back better for it' then I agree. If you are saying 'keep them in the Wallaby side despite the example of Robinson' then I definitely disagree.

I'm more stressing that players, with a great degree of effort, can turn around there form in a short amount of time.

Robinson was dropped for 1 or 2 weeks as a statement more than anything, at the time he was reasonably experienced at S14 level and slightly experienced at test level. Dropping Daley would be a statement but not a positive one. Give him another week THEN drop him if poor form persists.

One MUST remember Daley hasn't been able to play rugby for quite a while and this may well have contributed to his poor game play at scrumtime.

 

[ScepticalScotty]

I'm afraid I'd give the same front 3 a go again, but also swallow pride and have Baxter and Dunning as backups. Throw em on to stabilise things if its all going wrong.

By the way - I have not followed this as closely as I should have - what has Baxter done to Deans to ensure he never gets picked again?

 

[daz]

Youth Policy.

It's why a kid with 3 seconds of S14 time gets picked over a guy with over 100 S14 caps. I'm not exactly sure how the mantra of "earning your spot" comes into it when if you blink, you miss whatever form the 3 second kid may have.

So here is my question: If we lose the Sydney test due to scrum issues, do we all just laugh it off as a learning curve, or do we shake with rage that we have lost a TEST MATCH for no other reason than making a man out of these poor lads?

Perhaps one day medical science will develop a technique to relocate and seperate the fused vertebrae of our second/third string sacrificial lambs from their arseholes...

As an aside, I want old Bill back as much as the next bloke, but regaining our important regional silverware must be high on the list of priorities. If not in 2010, then when?

 

[Epi]

Youth Policy.
So here is my question: If we lose the Sydney test due to scrum issues, do we all just laugh it off as a learning curve, or do we shake with rage that we have lost a TEST MATCH for no other reason than making a man out of these poor lads?

Perhaps one day medical science will develop a technique to relocate and seperate the fused vertebrae of our second/third string sacrificial lambs from their arseholes...

As an aside, I want old Bill back as much as the next bloke, but regaining our important regional silverware must be high on the list of priorities. If not in 2010, then when?

+1 and does anyone figure that ma'afu has a snowflakes chance of figuring in any WC?? Madness...

 

[mark_s]

I'm afraid I'd give the same front 3 a go again, but also swallow pride and have Baxter and Dunning as backups. Throw em on to stabilise things if its all going wrong.

By the way - I have not followed this as closely as I should have - what has Baxter done to Deans to ensure he never gets picked again?

Baxter has been a penalty magnet at internatiuonal level for 5 years now, baring one EOYT. The bledisloe last year at homebush was the last straw for Deans when Baxter started getting pinged from very early in the game. The fairness of this has been debated at length, but its irrelevant if the refs still see him as a culprit - which they do. Some argue that its karma for what Bill Young got away with for so many years. Baxter will only ever be used as a stop gap solution from now on, although I would be tempted to have in the squad for this weekend for that very reason.

Redbeard over at TSF made a comment about how international scrums might be referreed differently to S14. I had never thought about this before but do think there is something in this as I noticed the same on the weekend. (It would explain a lot re Baxter.) Owens was letting both teams get away with a lot more on the engage in terms of the timing, stability of the hit and the binds. He also wasn't making the poms use the ball once they had won it. Not criticising owen, but if this is true it strengthens the case for bringing new blood into the Aus test team earlier as where else where they learn? The 2-3 Aus A games a year aren't going to do it.

 

[fatprop]

One MUST remember Daley hasn't been able to play rugby for quite a while and this may well have contributed to his poor game play at scrumtime.

True, but Daley isn't there for his scrummaging, he never has been as he is still learning. I would be happy for him to learn in the A's and a shot off the bench, but not starting. From the first scrum he was in trouble, he was being thrown around like a rag doll by the Pom THP, shit at times the Pom THP was lifting him up after he had collapsed so he could do it again, Ma'afu was no better.

 

[Scotty]

12 Horne
13 Chambers

Please please please Robbie. I'm going to say it every week until it happens.

 

[daz]

12 Horne
13 Chambers

Please please please Robbie. I'm going to say it every week until it happens.

I'd keep Barnes at 12 this week, as long as he had his testicles twisted by Rocky each time he kicked the ball away to no advantage. (That would be a great look on global tv: Come here you stupid twat *TWIST*)

However, I can see Chambers carving up the pedestrian Pom line quite nicely. Is he playing 13 in the mid-week game?

 

[darkhorse]

12 Horne
13 Chambers

Please please please Robbie. I'm going to say it every week until it happens.

That would be an exciting backline.

In fact the more I think about it Horne offers everything that Barnes does at 12 and more. The only bone of contention is his kicking, but for my mind the guys looks like a skillful lad and he couldn't have that bad a boot on him. Barnes does do well kicking for the corners, turning a backline round and playing field position, but can't Quade do all that anyway? I'm sure Horne would have a decent clearing kick. Otherwise, his defence is probably better than barnes, which is no mean feat, and certainly offers more in attack. Barnes' passing game is unneccesary while quade is there as well, especially if we have a ball-playing 15 like JOC (James O'Connor) or Beale.

But perhaps its best to leave an old head, who can help out with the playmaking, outside Quade while he finds his feat at test level.

 

[Ruggo]

The Crab will be back for sure. This is good if it gives him a chance to find form before the tri nations. Chambers deserves a run at 13 and is there a better time to do it? Horne to the bench and Barnes out of the 22.