Wallabies vs Italy - 25th Nov

[Dave Beat]

An interesting point, DB. It goes against the current orthodoxy but having the whole pack flooding the breakdown area would pose a real challenge for the opposition. Of course it would mean that you would have to do without the obligatory lurkers and seagulls; but it would create space for the backs to work in.

And having forwards doing forwards-type-things and backs doing backs-type-things might make our game worth watching again.
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Bruce - that's right it comes back to game plan and idea's though.
At kick off the forwards use to run the tram lines, the 2nd rowers stood there waiting as they new the ball was coming their way, Rod McQueen thought why are we kicking it to the tallest player on the field, and to a player who new the ball was coming their way? - he changed the approach to the restart.
Fassion changes and does appear to go around in circles, I wonder if a coach will be inutitive enough to create a game plan and ideas about ball retention and 8 players in a "maul".

Bruce how much success has Uni had going back to the core skill of a maul, and ball retention?????
Uni uses that skill time and time again in the big games.

 

[barbarian]

My post also stated that we were beaten at the set pieces, using your same logic you should have attributed me as blaming Phipps for scrum problems.
If you don't think that Phipps gave poorer service to KB (Kurtley Beale), or that he didn't organise the piggies at the breakdown as well as Sheehan, then I give up.

Well no, but you certainly made the assertion that the introduction of Phipps caused a fair few areas to falter.

And I honestly think that there was very little difference between the performance of Sheehan and Phipps. So we both may have to take our toys and go home then.
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[nathan]

I think you'd find his supporters (i.e. me) would agree he's been unnoteable as a test halfback throughout his stint and has probably had a bad test or two but this mythical theory he's been notably bad or a major part of us losing is ridiculous. His play in general has simply not been that bad and for those looks for specific proof remember he's come up with key passes for tries against Argentina in the GC, Italy, and England.

His 'poor' passing is still equal and/or better than Burgeo at a similar time in his test career. I'd remind you that everybody was crying for him to return.

He's not currently test starting standard for the 3rd best nation in the world that's for sure but I'd argue he's no worse than Youngs, who many of us rate highly.

I'd also argue that for what Burgo lacked in passing capability, he somewhat made up for in his running game and defense. With the exception of the assist in Cummins try against England, I haven't seen Phipps create anywhere near the opportunities Burgo did in the gold jersey. Whether that's down to a lack of skill or a lack of experience, I'm not sure but on his current form I'm expecting we'll never find out come next international season.

 

[Floggn']

Here is the video I said I would post yesterday. Its amateur at best but you get the idea. If you still disagree with me after this then you never will agree with me and you make excuses for him until he retires.

 

[Dave Beat]

Here is the video I said I would post yesterday. Its amateur at best but you get the idea. If you still disagree with me after this then you never will agree with me and you make excuses for him until he retires.

- what gets me is his tackling technique and the positioning of his head. commited in defence yes but one day he will do serious damage.

 

[Floggn']

Agreed DB. His tackling technique although effective at times are very dangerous for his well being. I am not saying he hasn't been KO'd he has. But there are numerous incidents especially this year that beg the question I am asking.

 

[en_force_er]

Here is the video I said I would post yesterday. Its amateur at best but you get the idea. If you still disagree with me after this then you never will agree with me and you make excuses for him until he retires.

I really don't like your "my 1 example proves it, and if you argue against me you're making excuses" theory.

Three indisputable facts before I make my argument:
FACT 1: TPN blokes tackles like a madman, often putting his head in harms way.
FACT 2: He goes through mountains of training and hard games. It's unlikely somebody 'soft' have gotten to this point in his career in a front row position.
FACT 3: TPN has a propensity to be injured, particularly concussions.

Whilst he has direct contact on his head in the video those of us who have come back from injury too early will know that it can be set off pretty easily. You do not need a direct head knock to feel it in your head, nor get a concussion.

All this makes it very unlikely that he is indeed a 'faker' or soft.

Almost as unlikely as a forum poster holding a position of influence that allows him to be privy to the back room fans of 2 Super Rugby franchises on complete opposite ends of the nation. Unless you are Richard Graham I call bullshit.

 

[Braveheart81]

What if the heavy knock is actually after he is tackled to the ground?

It would appear that the time his head actually hits the ground is when he gets a forearm in the back of his head and his head is smacked down onto the ground. Clearly he lost the ball well before that which is an error.

I hardly think this video contains conclusive proof of anything. Except for the fact that TPN dropped the ball cancelling out the good run he'd just made.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

What if the heavy knock is actually after he is tackled to the ground?

It would appear that the time his head actually hits the ground is when he gets a forearm in the back of his head and his head is smacked down onto the ground. Clearly he lost the ball well before that which is an error.

I hardly think this video contains conclusive proof of anything. Except for the fact that TPN dropped the ball cancelling out the good run he'd just made.

Happens alot that.....

 

[Braveheart81]

It certainly did in that game which was a shame. His ball retention was nowhere near what it should be.

Clearly TPN has flaws in his game but he also has strong attributes that make him a good player. He is a good ball runner and gets across the advantage line. He has the ability to offload in contact which few of our forwards possess. He also makes some massive tackles. Unfortunately, he too often gets his head in the wrong place and knocks himself out.

He has played 40 odd tests now and should play a fair few more. He's still easily the second best hooker in the country. For all his injury proneness, he's been available for a lot more of the test season this year than Moore. I think he is definitely an important part of our test team.

 

[Floggn']

Firstly I don't think TPN has done this from the moment he has come onto the scene but certainly in the last 2 years it happens a lot. There is no knock to his head in this video, Tony Woodcock has his hands on the back of his jersey near his shoulders but no where near his head. He had the strength to look up first. He maybe knocks himself when he throws his head into the turf? My problem here is if he got up after his error he could have made a difference when we lost the ball in the attacking 22 at the ruck. He is a liability.

Enforcer I am not Richard Graham, I am not a player and it is not bullshit. If you know a player or coaching staff get off your arse and ask them but don't call someone a liar unless YOU have someone on the inside other than the Tahs saying different. My connections certainly are in full agreement that they are aware of it and utilise it as a weakness. Have a look at how TPN was targeted in the Reds game at Suncorp this year and tell me if that's normal.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah TPN is clearly soft. As illustrated by that video of him beating two All Black defenders and then charging into two more, while wearing the Wallaby 2 jersey in a Bledisloe Cup game.

What a marshmellow.
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[thierry dusautoir]

he is the quade cooper of the forwards either going to be an absolute weapon or worst player (behind phipps)

I think Charles (especially) and Hanson if they keep developing will really compete with him neck and neck for the second hooker spot.

I say Hanson not because Saia is a bad player but because i think Hanson has a better all round game and is looking more, more like Moore (sorry for the pun) with each year, while i think Saia development has stagnated but only 2013 will tell

 

[Floggn']

Yeah TPN is clearly soft. As illustrated by that video of him beating two All Black defenders and then charging into two more, while wearing the Wallaby 2 jersey in a Bledisloe Cup game.

What a marshmellow.
.

Good to see we agree Barbarian.

 

[qwerty51]

Why are you recording a YouTube video with a camera??

 

[Floggn']

QWERTY5, mate not sure how to download from You tube.

 

[en_force_er]

Firstly I don't think TPN has done this from the moment he has come onto the scene but certainly in the last 2 years it happens a lot. There is no knock to his head in this video, Tony Woodcock has his hands on the back of his jersey near his shoulders but no where near his head. He had the strength to look up first. He maybe knocks himself when he throws his head into the turf? My problem here is if he got up after his error he could have made a difference when we lost the ball in the attacking 22 at the ruck. He is a liability.

Enforcer I am not Richard Graham, I am not a player and it is not bullshit. If you know a player or coaching staff get off your arse and ask them but don't call someone a liar unless YOU have someone on the inside other than the Tahs saying different. My connections certainly are in full agreement that they are aware of it and utilise it as a weakness. Have a look at how TPN was targeted in the Reds game at Suncorp this year and tell me if that's normal.

I don't need anything backing me up. You're the one claiming the outlandish viewpoint, the burden of proof is in your corner.

I don't need to prove anything or even really disprove your theory, you need to prove what you're saying and you've far from done that. Your low quality youtube video, ridiculous/questionable high level coach/player testimony, and your lack of understanding of how hard trauma in sport works has me very confident this is all hogwash.

Sure, from the footage it's 50-50 that he got hit in the head but you don't need a knock to the head to cause a woozey-ness, PARTICULARLY when you've got a predisposition to it. Head trauma is caused by the brain moving within the head, not the head being literally hit (though that helps). Any kind of hard hit anywhere of your body can cause it, such as having 2 ABs run into you and then hitting the ground.

I find it hard to envision you having a candid post game conversation with players/coaches from 2 different provinces in which they off handedly mention they target TPN for being soft. It's so improbable it's astounding.

 

[qwerty51]

Just need to post it the URL, into these tags [.media] ... [./media]

 

[Braveheart81]

he is the quade cooper of the forwards either going to be an absolute weapon or worst player (behind phipps)

I think Charles (especially) and Hanson if they keep developing will really compete with him neck and neck for the second hooker spot.

I say Hanson not because Saia is a bad player but because i think Hanson has a better all round game and is looking more, more like Moore (sorry for the pun) with each year, while i think Saia development has stagnated but only 2013 will tell

Lots of people said this would happen in 2012 but if anything, TPN has closed the gap on Moore again and put considerable distance between them and the third and fourth choice hookers, Fainga'a and Hanson.

 

[Floggn']

qwert51 it was the whole game that was the problem.

Enforcer, I was watching the game with two players at the time of the test and they brought it up, not me, and not for the first time. So blow it out your you know what. There is no reason for me to lie about this, I have no axe to grind against TPN but I do think he is the softest forward in the pack at the moment. People doubter why I said that so I posted a video of just 1 example there are others! People will make their own calls on the situations he has during a vast majority of his games. Mine is clear and yours is clear obviously.