Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[nick_]

After these 2 games our core 23 players are by and large going to get all the game time. The other 8 guys are there in case we need a last minute change to the 23. This is precisely where we need someone with the experience of horwill to fill in, and not a debutante like Rory Arnold. So expect more experience and less super form amongst these 8 blokes.

Spot on. Chieka = His game plan > experienced Test players > Super form

 

[ACT Crusader]

I'm not sure why there is surprise that Hunt was selected in a squad like this. Its almost an every man and his dog type squad....

In my view the guy has clear talent and ability. I watched a few of his Biarritz performances and was impressed. He's had an interrupted season in a Reds team that is faulty on many different fronts. I think if given the opportunity could offer something different in attack. Add to that he is a fairly staunch defender. The big question though is what is his best position. Although it took a number of years to work out Medicare Matt's best position.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I'm not sure why there is surprise that Hunt was selected in a squad like this. Its almost an every man and his dog type squad..

In my view the guy has clear talent and ability. I watched a few of his Biarritz performances and was impressed. He's had an interrupted season in a Reds team that is faulty on many different fronts. I think if given the opportunity could offer something different in attack. Add to that he is a fairly staunch defender. The big question though is what is his best position. Although it took a number of years to work out Medicare Matt's best position.

ACT - The bloke was just not up to standard. A kick or tackle or 2 doesnt make a season.
. To me it is a little disrespectful of other players.

Would probably say it was an ARU directive surely not the Great One's

 

[Ruggo]

Trying not to break things in my house right now.

Little Red from the Rebels and Tamani should have been picked. Rebels best all year and both have attributes to contribute to international rugby. Despite that, nothing is to be lost from getting young future talent into the Wallaby training environment.

Hunt and JOC (James O'Connor) seem like board room selections rather than coach selections. Neither deserve to be there.

Fine with Kev being picked. Lineout will be a big platform for us and despite other flaws in his game at present, very few in this country are better lineout exponents than Kev.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Are you sure there will be an EOYT this year, just after the RWC? I have in mind that there was no EOYT after the 2011 RWC and I think there was an announcement some time ago to that effect this year also. But I could be imagining it.

In 2011 you played a revenue-sharing outside-the-window match v Wales in early December, this year you'll play it v USA pre-tournament so unless Billy P has something up his sleeve the wobs season ends when their RWC ends.

 

[ACT Crusader]

When was professional sports about 'respect' in the sense you talk of?

I know we like to think that the ARU has influence like this, I certainly thought this when the likes of Wendell, Ryan Cross, Andrew Walker, Matt Rogers etc were first selected to play for the Wallabies having shown little or had limited experience, but unless there is some evidence of it then I think you're discrediting Chieka.

It's not a final squad so either he's there to show what he's made of or to hold tackle bags.......

 

[barbarian]

I'm a bit surprised that people think JOC (James O'Connor) shouldn't have been picked.

Sure his form has been patchy, but he has a Wallaby pedigree like few others, and has generally played at his peak in the biggest matches. Yeah he has plenty of issues, but I think you're mad if you don't pick him in your wider squad, especially given our limited top-class wing options.
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[abcde]

I don't want to add to the complaints/hate mail. I do disagree with a few inclusions, but nonetheless, in the spirit of this thread, and from the magical number of a 51-man squad that they initially had in mind a few months back, here's my predictions. Open to people's thoughts/changes. Before I get into it, the outline for the current prelim. squad of 22 looks like this:
- 5 props; 3 THP, 2 LHP
- 2 hookers
- 3 locks
- 1 lock/backrowers
- 5 backrowers
- 1 halfback
- 3 inside backs/centres
- 2 outside backs

My inclusions from Tahs, Brumbies and OS-based players makes the squad look like this:
7 Props:
- Paul Alo-Emile: Rebels (THP)
- Tetera Faulkner: Force (THP)
- Greg Holmes: Reds (THP)
- Sekope Kepu: Waratahs (THP)
- Scott Sio: Brumbies (LHP)
- James Slipper: Reds (LHP)
- Toby Smith: Rebels (LHP)

5 Hookers:
- Saia Fainga'a: Reds
- James Hanson: Reds
- Tolu Latu: Waratahs
- Stephen Moore: Brumbies
- Tatafu Polota-Nau: Waratahs

6 Locks:
- Rory Arnold: Brumbies
- Sam Carter: Brumbies
- Adam Coleman: Force
- James Horwill: Reds
- Rob Simmons: Reds
- Will Skelton: Waratahs

3 Lock/Backrowers:
- Dave Dennis: Waratahs
- Scott Fardy: Brumbies
- Luke Jones: Rebels

Backrow:
- Liam Gill: Reds
- Scott Higginbotham: Rebels
- Matt Hodgson: Force
- Michael Hooper: Waratahs
- Ben McCalman: Force
- Sean McMahon: Rebels
- Wycliff Palu: Waratahs
- David Pocock: Brumbies
- George Smith: Suntory (Japan)
- Ita Vaea: Brumbies

3 Halfbacks:
- Will Genia: Reds
- Nick Phipps: Waratahs
- Nic White: Brumbies

8 Inside backs/centres:
- Kurtley Beale: Waratahs
- Quade Cooper: Reds
- Bernard Foley: Waratahs
- Matt Giteau: Toulon (France)
- Karmichael Hunt: Reds
- Samu Kerevi: Reds
- Christian Leali'ifano: Brumbies
- Matt To'omua: Brumbies

9 Outside backs:
- Adam Ashley-Cooper: Waratahs
- Nick Cummins: Force
- Israel Folau: Waratahs
- Rob Horne: Waratahs
- Tevita Kuridrani: Brumbies
- Drew Mitchell: Toulon (France)
- James O'Connor: Reds
- Henry Speight: Brumbies
- Joe Tomane: Brumbies

So with that in mind, I've gone with a finished set up of:
- 7 props; 4 THP, 3 LHP
- 5 hookers
- 6 locks
- 3 lock/backrowers (no starters, maybe one on the bench)
- 10 backrowers
- 3 halfbacks
- 8 inside backs
- 7 outside backs

A make up of:
13 Brumbies
5 Force
5 Rebels
12 Reds
13 Waratahs
2 Toulon (France)
1 Suntory (Japan)


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[Highlander35]

That's fine I guess.

But GS was playing for Lyon this season and for Wasps next season. Hasn't played for Suntory in about 16 months.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm a bit surprised that people think JOC (James O'Connor) shouldn't have been picked.

Sure his form has been patchy, but he has a Wallaby pedigree like few others, and has generally played at his peak in the biggest matches. Yeah he has plenty of issues, but I think you're mad if you don't pick him in your wider squad, especially given our limited top-class wing options.
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In 1995 Bob Dwyer made massive mistakes by selecting injured players where there were proven performers able to take their place. Yes those options may not have been able to reach the heights of the incumbents if those options had been uninjured. The problem with selecting JOC (James O'Connor) even in this wider training group setting is that he has shown neither form (IMO) or fitness to deserve the call up over other options who have shown at least as much.

 

[Dave Beat]

When was professional sports about 'respect' in the sense you talk of?

I know we like to think that the ARU has influence like this, I certainly thought this when the likes of Wendell, Ryan Cross, Andrew Walker, Matt Rogers etc were first selected to play for the Wallabies having shown little or had limited experience, but unless there is some evidence of it then I think you're discrediting Chieka.

It's not a final squad so either he's there to show what he's made of or to hold tackle bags...

Im with you - I'm keen to see how Hunt progresses, not in my 23 at the moment but I saw a few maybe's that made me want to see how he progresses.

 

[TOCC]

The problem with selecting JOC (James O'Connor) even in this wider training group setting is that he has shown neither form (IMO) or fitness to deserve the call up over other options who have shown at least as much.

Which other fullback options precisely?
Because Mogg and DHP haven't warranted test selection either...


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[Gnostic]

Which other fullback options precisely?
Because Mogg and DHP haven't warranted test selection either.


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AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Move Foley to 15 and Cooper to 10 (which would allow a more traditional 12 like Kerevi or Horne). Or (and I cannot believe I am even contemplating this considering I genuinely believe he shouldn't even be playing the game in Australia regardless of form or fitness) Beale, Giteau and Mitchell.

I just do not think a player who has played so little and displayed so little deserves to be in a train on squad. He is there purely on reputation of past deeds and the hopes he could live up to his potential. As opposed to actual form and being fit/uninjured.

 

[ChargerWA]

Which other fullback options precisely?
Because Mogg and DHP haven't warranted test selection either.


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I'd suggest on form this year DHP > JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[Braveheart81]

JOC (James O'Connor) is a proven performer for the Wallabies in pressure games. He has a wealth of test experience and that is why he is in this initial 45-50 man squad.

At this stage it certainly seems unlikely but if he progresses to later squads and eventually gets to the RWC it will presumably be due to performing well at training and then on the park.

I can't believe people are surprised that he has been included. I imagine every seasoned Wallaby will make it to this first squad. Several wouldn't be there on form alone but they'll get their chance to contribute to the squad going forward and compete to remain in the squad.

 

[liquor box]

JOC (James O'Connor) is a proven performer for the Wallabies in pressure games. He has a wealth of test experience and that is why he is in this initial 45-50 man squad.

At this stage it certainly seems unlikely but if he progresses to later squads and eventually gets to the RWC it will presumably be due to performing well at training and then on the park.

I can't believe people are surprised that he has been included. I imagine every seasoned Wallaby will make it to this first squad. Several wouldn't be there on form alone but they'll get their chance to contribute to the squad going forward and compete to remain in the squad.

I have always thought past performances (especially a few years ago) are over rated when you have players in better form playing.

I am stoked that Kerevi got invited, it shows that an impressive NRC and then Super rugby season will be rewarded rather than just giving the same guys yet another go because they have been around longer but are not necessarily better.

 

[Braveheart81]

I have always thought past performances (especially a few years ago) are over rated when you have players in better form playing.

They are if that's all there is.

A training camp should give Cheika an idea of whether it is worth pursuing.

This would be a completely different argument if JOC (James O'Connor) had just been named in a matchday 23 but at this stage it's just the beginnings of a massive squad.

 

[BDA]

\

I have always thought past performances (especially a few years ago) are over rated when you have players in better form playing.
.

As the saying goes, form is temporary, class is permanent. Some players are just proven test match players. JOC (James O'Connor) is one of those players. He might currently be in shit form, but under the right coach in the right environment he can turn things around pretty quickly.

From here its really about getting the best out of JOC (James O'Connor), and that's up to Cheika to work out. Agree with Braveheart that if Cheika cant whip him into some decent form, he'll possibly miss out on a WC spot. But the fact of the matter is that his ceiling is higher than most of our outside backs.

Conversely it's a fact that Super form doesn't equal test quality. In 2011/2012 there was a large number of Reds in the squad, many of whom were chosen because they were playing great rugby for their province (guys like Fainga'a / Davies / Taps etc) but that didn't necessarily translate to them being quality test players. That brilliant "lightening in a bottle" form that they had was only temporary, and was in large part thanks to a great team environment.

That's also a major problem with picking rookies IMO. its very hard to tell whether they'll sink or swim in the gold jersey, merely based on their provincial form.

Our world cup will largely come down to whether Cheika can turn us into a Champion team, rather than a team of champions. It will be about creating the right environment that gets the most out of the players. Its that intangible team work that turns average teams to champion teams. Chieka has to achieve that. If he can, a guy like JOC (James O'Connor) will flourish

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm not sure why there is surprise that Hunt was selected in a squad like this. Its almost an every man and his dog type squad..

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Not too sure about the every man, but I'm sure there are a few drovers' dogs that had better form than Hunt in this year's Super comp.

 

[the sabanator]

JOC (James O'Connor) is a class player. He was one of the Wallabies' best from 2010 through to his 'incidents'. No surprise he is in this squad, no surprise if he's on the plane to England and no surprises here if and when he performs well in canary yellow.