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Waratahs 2021

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
If the Rebels, Force or Brumbies had been mismanaged by their boards or been flogged as bad as the Tahs have (albeit against last years Grand finalists) the newspapers and these forums would be talking merging or axing teams, not just sacking the coach.

Those posts/discussions were always in the context of the possibility of having to drop to 4 or even 3 franchises. In an ideal world we would have 8-10 domestic franchises. Like it or not NSW Rugby won’t be going anywhere but hopefully there is a silver lining to come out of all of this.
 

Finsbury Girl

Trevor Allan (34)
North Shore mafia at it again?

"senior sources.....are indicating Penney's days are numbered"

The CEO "now is not the time to be doing that sort of finger pointing" Kiss of death or am I reading too much into that comment?

Who'd want to actually coach NSW if they do get rid of him?
 

Blackadder

Desmond Connor (43)
North Shore mafia at it again?

"senior sources...are indicating Penney's days are numbered"

The CEO "now is not the time to be doing that sort of finger pointing" Kiss of death or am I reading too much into that comment?

Who'd want to actually coach NSW if they do get rid of him?

Being the Tahs management the least decent coach Whittaker
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Those posts/discussions were always in the context of the possibility of having to drop to 4 or even 3 franchises. In an ideal world we would have 8-10 domestic franchises. Like it or not NSW Rugby won’t be going anywhere but hopefully there is a silver lining to come out of all of this.
I am a Tahs fan and fully understand they aren’t going anywhere, all those other teams have to prove they deserve a spot, whereas the Tahs organisation assumes (with the arrogant knowledge that it’s true) that their spot is certain. Hopefully the shake up is in the boardroom.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
I am a Tahs fan and fully understand they aren’t going anywhere, all those other teams have to prove they deserve a spot, whereas the Tahs organisation assumes (with the arrogant knowledge that it’s true) that their spot is certain. Hopefully the shake up is in the boardroom.

It’s a proper reality check, hopefully come April that shakeup happens and we put some people in charge who actually have the game’s interest at heart. RA (read McLennan) might take the lead with any luck.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
North Shore mafia at it again?

"senior sources...are indicating Penney's days are numbered"

The CEO "now is not the time to be doing that sort of finger pointing" Kiss of death or am I reading too much into that comment?

Who'd want to actually coach NSW if they do get rid of him?

No one. You can judge by the rate at which the Tahs fart out talent that almost no one wants to be there.

Need a clean-out like RA.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
The fact we don't have a player budget so we can get kids on the park is frustrating while the leaches crow about their success using our supporters money to pay our juniors.

Understand your frustration having strong teams across Super Rugby AU is good for the Wallabies

However those players that come from NSW are developed either by schools or unpaid volunteers at the local rugby club. NSW Rugby actually invests little money in developing players.

So whilst it is frustrating seeing NSW born and breed players going elsewhere I don’t feel that the NSW Waratah organisation is subsidising other Super Rugby franchise because they have put minimal dollars into junior development.
 

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
The Waratahs have been in decline for the past 5 or so because of poor recruitment and not retaining the right players. I feel a bit for Penney, but don't see him bringing these young players up. Most are regressing and the last 2 weeks has been embarrassment. The youthful exuberance that we thought would happen has become deer in the headlights stuff and seemingly lack of commitment which is what irks me. Gibson and Hoare and the Dodger get a lot of blame, but what was Tim Rapp's role ( for want of a better word ) in all of this? Doesn't really matter I Spose because he's left the sinking ship to take a plum job at Newington
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
I don’t know whether Penney is a good coach or not, but what I do know is the current circumstances at the Waratahs are a direct result of mismanagement made over the last 5 years, and not just the past 12 months, and even the best coaches would struggle under the circumstances presented.

I have a post from 2019 bemoaning the Waratahs lack of investment in development, locks in particular and that’s when they still had Simmons. The development system at the Tahs is broken, and that’s why they’re where they are today. Yes Europe is paying higher wages and all teams are losing players, that’s why they need an effective system in place to at least try and plug the hole. I just don’t think that exists in NSW.
 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
The Waratahs have been in decline for the past 5 or so because of poor recruitment and not retaining the right players. I feel a bit for Penney, but don't see him bringing these young players up. Most are regressing and the last 2 weeks has been embarrassment. The youthful exuberance that we thought would happen has become deer in the headlights stuff and seemingly lack of commitment which is what irks me. Gibson and Hoare and the Dodger get a lot of blame, but what was Tim Rapp's role ( for want of a better word ) in all of this? Doesn't really matter I Spose because he's left the sinking ship to take a plum job at Newington

Last season the Tahs showed impressive improvement through the season, and were playing a very good style of footy in the SRAU portion of the season - though blighted with the usual inconsistency that the Tahs have shown for years. Penney is good with young players - you can't judge his season on two games, with a team of U20s and journeymen playing against two well-drilled, settled sides.
 

Blackadder

Desmond Connor (43)
Last season the Tahs showed impressive improvement through the season, and were playing a very good style of footy in the SRAU portion of the season - though blighted with the usual inconsistency that the Tahs have shown for years. Penney is good with young players - you can't judge his season on two games, with a team of U20s and journeymen playing against two well-drilled, settled sides.

Last year the Tahs had some experienced heads like Hooper and Simmons to help. This year no one.

They also failed to make the finals in a 5 team comp.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
It will be interesting to see how they go against the Force. If you look at them across the board they lack any form of true leadership, including Gordon. I just do not rate him as a captain to be followed in the mould of most that we see.
They need to write this year off and recruit well for next year.
Rodda would be a good start alongside Latu to stiffen up the pack. With Latu between HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) and Bell they automatically become a competitive scrum. I’d also be looking for some experience in the mid field. Of course the return of Michael Hooper will also push them back towards being competitive.
In recent times the Tahs have been woefully mismanaged. A new board and direction might be a good place to start? Not sure about Penney but his tenure has been nothing better than horrible so far. They really look flat and uninspired on the paddock.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Not saying that at all. We all know the oldest provincial team in the country in the largest rugby market in the country is untouchable. It’s just the board seems to hide behind that fact, while those other teams aren’t given that leeway.

Hard to argue that. As the largest market and talent pool it should be working harder than the rest.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I have a post from 2019 bemoaning the Waratahs lack of investment in development, locks in particular and that’s when they still had Simmons. The development system at the Tahs is broken, and that’s why they’re where they are today. Yes Europe is paying higher wages and all teams are losing players, that’s why they need an effective system in place to at least try and plug the hole. I just don’t think that exists in NSW.


Outside of locks, I think the team is full of good young players. I'd say it is comfortably the best group of players aged 23 and under that the Waratahs have had over at least a decade.

The bulk of the 23 and pretty much all the players I would want to retain are 23 and under and are in their first couple of years of professional rugby. The issue is that we probably only want 5 of those guys in the 23, not 12 as was the case in week 1.

The issue is that's pretty much it. The closest the team has to a first choice Wallaby is Jake Gordon who was mostly the reserve 9 last season but now he is injured for pretty much the whole season. Angus Bell was the only other player to play tests last year. Outside of that they have a couple of squad members and former Wallabies.

It does seem like it is predominantly down to money. The only recruits they have brought in are journeymen who are showing why they have had to sign with a team massively underspending their salary cap. They're very average.
 

Sheepie

Sydney Middleton (9)
The bulk of the 23 and pretty much all the players I would want to retain are 23 and under and are in their first couple of years of professional rugby. The issue is that we probably only want 5 of those guys in the 23, not 12 as was the case in week 1.


We lost half our squad after the 2019 season, the other half after the 2020 season. It’s all new young faces (not big expensive signings). You normally bring in people of this calibre at a dribble, a couple at a time so they can get experience and learn from the old hands. Not at the rate of half a squad a season over two seasons.

I'm amazed people are expecting much different from the team.

There was a lot of talk for 2020 that they'd be wooden spooners. They outperformed the expectation. They're in a worse position now having again lost half the squad and now even less experience.

It's a complete failure in planning and player management. I feel this is more of a management issue than Penney? But I'm not certain of who is in charge of such things as player turnover and making sure we're doing things intelligently. A team should always be bringing new players up, not making wholesale changes like this.

But that's where we are. That's the point we've been left in. For what we have, expectations should really only be on seeing improvement week to week. Did the Tahs look better last week than against the Reds? I'd say no, but I'll also give them a third week at least before going drastic.
 

Blazing Saddles

Sydney Middleton (9)
North Shore mafia at it again?

"senior sources...are indicating Penney's days are numbered"

The CEO "now is not the time to be doing that sort of finger pointing" Kiss of death or am I reading too much into that comment?

Who'd want to actually coach NSW if they do get rid of him?

Ahhh, think the power has well and truly shifted from the North Shore to Eastern Sydney now...
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It's a complete failure in planning and player management.


Or is it just the reality if you try and run a professional team on 3/4 of the wage bill as your opponents where that wage bill is already fairly low on a global scale?

No amount of planning helps you build a squad where the average contract size doesn't get you much more than a rookie on their first professional contract.
 

Sheepie

Sydney Middleton (9)
Or is it just the reality if you try and run a professional team on 3/4 of the wage bill as your opponents where that wage bill is already fairly low on a global scale?

No amount of planning helps you build a squad where the average contract size doesn't get you much more than a rookie on their first professional contract.


I've seen claims floated around that some of the departed experienced players weren't even offered contracts. Including ones who would have been willing to accept nominal amounts.
 
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