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Waratahs vs Reds - R3 2014

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
It was a message from Cheika for his players to not react to the heated emotion in the interstate clash, although it’s believed the combustible coach struggled to keep his own poker face when he later learned the dressing room moment had been screened.

Well, he didn't have a poker face when he went out of the coach's box to go down to the dressing sheds to talk with the guys at half-time after Turner scored with the Tahs a wide defender short because Izzy had been carded.

He went by me with the smoke coming out of his ears and said three words: "For ??? sake". I didn't get the middle word but he was probably going to talk about the breakdown because the word sounded like "rucks".
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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
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It's lucky we've got such great unpaid interns to prepare this sort of material. Otherwise Cheika would have just had to describe what the poker face was meant to look like and I'm sure it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Personally I thought he was woeful. My biggest issue was him warning a player for coming from the side of a maul and actually slowing it down, but not penalizing despite having a positive impact and other similar instances at rucks and around the park. Luckily his errors went both ways and as you said, were irrelevant to the score. We were simply outplayed. Even if we got the harsh end of the ref, we were so far off the pace it wouldn't have mattered. Next two weeks will be the big test to see how we come back from that.


There were 29 penalties in the game as it is, just too many, someone should have been binned earlier, maybe a few. A couple of Reds in the first half then a couple of Tahs in the second

The challenge is now that teams are spreading the ruck penalties/off sides around more judiciously so it will be an "unfair, team penalty"
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
It's lucky we've got such great unpaid interns to prepare this sort of material. Otherwise Cheika would have just had to describe what the poker face was meant to look like and I'm sure it wouldn't have been nearly as effective.

Nah, the hand drawn picture fits his persona

Foley would have done it by a power point presentation with a backing track and a statistical data handout
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
I've just had a chance to look at my recording of the game so here are some further thoughts:

Kafer mentioned that the mark of good teams is that they put the foot on the throat when the game is won; so there is no hope of resurrection for the other side.

It was a good point. The Tahs just fizzled out though their physicality was maintained. Maybe they realised that the visitors had no clue how to score a try that night when the Tahs had 15 men on the field.

There was mention that the Tahs lineout was good in the match against the Force yet it had problems against the Reds. Another good point.

I don't mind so much if my team loses a lineout because the other team has guessed right and gets up in front of my team's jumpers. You have to "pay" superior contesting skills from opponents even though they are from north of the Tweed River, but the unforced errors were galling.

I said a while back that one of the drawbacks of the Tahs' 2014 squad was that they would be vulnerable at lineout time when Chapman, a natural lineout quarterback, was not on the park, because I didn't think a lot about Dennis as an on-field lineout tactician.

Without Chapman and Dennis the Tahs' lineout on Saturday was a shambles, not that the Reds were perfect.

The thing was though: I couldn't work out at the ground who was calling the moves for the Tahs, whoever was throwing the ball in; and having seen the replay I am none the wiser, though I thought I saw Hoiles' lips move once or twice.

One of Vickerman's briefs should be to coach Douglas to be a lineout boss so that he can act as the deputy.

Will Skelton has been running into contact too upright since he was at school and he is still doing it; but Big Willie still makes the yards. One of the reasons is that he has a low centre of gravity compared to what he should have with his height.

He is proportionally big from the waist down and can plow through tacklers from a poor running position. Louis Picamoles, the Toulouse and France number 8, is another who comes to mind in this regard.

But Will should be coached to run in a better position nevertheless.

• Some of the forward passes could have been avoided. The runners who got their timing wrong were part of the problem but the major fault was with the passers, for example Foley and Phipps, who at least had the option of not passing the ball.

• Then there was the habit of passing and stopping, giving the illusion of the pass being forward when it was actually square. Beale of NSW and Cooper of Qld did this on Saturday night instead of running forward to disguise a dodgy pass (and perhaps interfering "accidentally" with a defender crossing their path).

I don't mind so much if the passer is wrapping around the player he passed to and needs the room to do so. But more often than not they just stop to make sure that they are in position, back far enough, to get the ball from the next breakdown.

It's not such a bad habit provided the referee is not fooled by the illusion of "forwardness", but if he isn't they have to get smarter.

• One didn't mind Foley so much delivering that "howler" pass to Alofa at top speed and the ball slippery, but it seemed odd that Jackson did not spot the infraction immediately, nor Leckie with the flag.

Jackson, who was far behind the play, was not quick as a player (nor that responsive to referees) and I fear that this will act as a barrier in his reffing career.

• it was good to see Jackson bending down to monitor the feeds to the scrum a few times in the second half but he should have done it all the time. Genia's backside was pointing to the Tahs corner post most of the time when he delivered the ball and no doubt Phipps was just as culpable.

The scrum protocol should require the low angle viewing by the ref of the put-in in most of the scrums [Not all, because sometimes fellows are playing serial silly buggers and have to be watched a lot]. And what is wrong with the near AR doing this duty when the scrum is in the 15 metre area and the other AR doing the 5 metre policing for defenders?

• That try scored after Beale passed to Betham brought back memories of many a game played by Joeys at Hunters Hill. These friends, born on the same day, were involved in many such tries for their school.

Crawford played well for Gen Blue (the NSW A side playing in the PRC) against Samoa A last Friday (See report here): http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/gen-blue-beat-samoa-in-prc-squeaker/

It's hard to believe that Betham or Alofa (playing on Crawford's preferred right-hand side) will be demoted to make room for him, but Cheika has made a few good moves already and he may make another one we don't expect.
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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I haven't re-watched the game but while watching it appeared the Reds were giving the front and stacking middle and back

But the Tahs continually went to the middle and back
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
There were 29 penalties in the game as it is, just too many, someone should have been binned earlier, maybe a few. A couple of Reds in the first half then a couple of Tahs in the second

The challenge is now that teams are spreading the ruck penalties/off sides around more judiciously so it will be an "unfair, team penalty"

Reds have a real issue with creeping up offside with their mid-field defence, and a lot of it needless. The ARs called it on them consistently during the game. This must be Graham's defensive pattern (or lack thereof), because they are being called on it way more than the opposition. It's just dumb.

In the first few weeks there's also been some interesting definitions of "coming through the middle" of mauls, generally when mauls splinter and a guy who was originally in the middle (and on the opposite side of the ref) creeps up on the splintered side.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
I haven't re-watched the game but while watching it appeared the Reds were giving the front and stacking middle and back

But the Tahs continually went to the middle and back

At the ground, it looked like the Reds mixed up where they jumped on defence. Can recall Reds stealing or disrupting a few at 2. I was actually wondering why they didn't just throw up Simmons or Quirk at 2 all night on defence, actually.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
At the ground, it looked like the Reds mixed up where they jumped on defence. Can recall Reds stealing or disrupting a few at 2. I was actually wondering why they didn't just throw up Simmons or Quirk at 2 all night on defence, actually.


Horwill has been doing a good chunk of the defensive jumping in the 2 pod so far. They mix Horwill/Schatz at the front and seem to like putting Horwill up in the 2nd pod.
 

A mutterer

Chilla Wilson (44)
i thought the tahs again improved but still have some work to go. they look fit and composed, but they did ease off compared to the week before.

definitely not trying to put the boot in, but did anyone else think that genia started looking petulant with a touch of the gregan whenever he got to the ball?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Mate I thought that about 2 years ago. Genia just looks like he has a fucking shit attitude in general. As a Reds supporter I'd love to see another halfback come along and knock him off his perch. Might just pull his head in a little.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
i thought the tahs again improved but still have some work to go. they look fit and composed, but they did ease off compared to the week before.

definitely not trying to put the boot in, but did anyone else think that genia started looking petulant with a touch of the gregan whenever he got to the ball?

I've said for a while that Genia has been way over-rated. Was he the worst Aussie half-back on the weekend?
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I've said for a while that Genia has been way over-rated. Was he the worst Aussie half-back on the weekend?
When he's at his best, he is very, very good. But when he's getting backfoot ball, he struggles (as most 9s do). And that's when he becomes crankier at everyone.
Gregan at his best had the knack of getting by with often retreating ball, and Genia could take a leaf from his book. He's got all the attributes to be up with the best in the world - good pass, good snipe, can kick (although I harbour a few doubts about his box-kicking efficacy), might just need to reinvent his game a little. Small tweaks only.
It's vital he does, because the Genia-Cooper nexus is absolutely key for the Reds.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Cylco I think it's fair to say nobody expects Genia to be at his best when he's getting backfoot ball all day. However good halfbacks are able to be adequate and put in passable performances. He needs to avoid looking like shit on these days.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Cylco I think it's fair to say nobody expects Genia to be at his best when he's getting backfoot ball all day. However good halfbacks are able to be adequate and put in passable performances. He needs to avoid looking like shit on these days.
Absolutely - we've all seen White, Phipps, Burgess etc look absolute pants when the forwards are getting smashed, it happens. But the really, really good ones cope better. I think Genia is the best 9 in Oz, in form, but he struggled last year and maybe a little rethink is in order. Is there anyone in his ear that is a mentor to him? I don't know. I don't doubt he'll lift.
 

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
Absolutely - we've all seen White, Phipps, Burgess etc look absolute pants when the forwards are getting smashed, it happens. But the really, really good ones cope better. I think Genia is the best 9 in Oz, in form, but he struggled last year and maybe a little rethink is in order. Is there anyone in his ear that is a mentor to him? I don't know. I don't doubt he'll lift.
Burgo rarely gets shown up especially in the last couple of years...
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Cylco I think it's fair to say nobody expects Genia to be at his best when he's getting backfoot ball all day. However good halfbacks are able to be adequate and put in passable performances. He needs to avoid looking like shit on these days.


TWaS: The reason why Genia will never be an all time great halfback is exactly this. Behind a pack going forward he can be magic. Behind a pack going backwards he looks awful and gets a dose of the cranks at everyone else into the bargain.

Ken Catchpole on the other hand looked magic whether he got good ball or bad, going backwards or going forwards. That's why he is in the Hall of Fame and is our greatest ever halfback. Our pack in the sixties after the leaguies pinched all our best players was always second rate compared to NZ and SA, and sometimes third rate. But one thing could always be guaranteed - that Catchy could fix it up and get clear.
 
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