Western Force 2021

[wamberal]

Sure


When the AFL went to Sydney in the early 80s it was completely ignored. They took their stars from Victoria for the better part of 30 years. Today there are two very successful AFL clubs in a Sydney with the league getting huge crowds. Plus there are quality players coming through.

Not quite as black and white as that. Aussie Rules (as we used to call it) was always popular in the south of the state. Some stars came out of these areas, and the ACT (Alex Jesaulenko for one, and what a one).

It was Jeffery Edelstein's willingness to throw zillions into the game that made the difference in Sydney, I am pretty sure.

 

[Forcefield]

I think efforts are underway to that effect WCR, but there is not a lot of support from the governing body. Increasing junior participation through things like Rugby Roos certainly helps. Participation in Super Rugby also helps. We lost a lot of really promising young fellows when the Force was cut and it will take time to build things up to where they were. Unless the numbers have changed in the last few years, WA is third biggest rugby state behind NSW and QLD. It doesn't seem like RA/ARU has ever expressed any interest in expanding that.

 

[dru]

I find this an incredibly naive position to take.
1/ how many people, if told they were getting a 60% pay cut while offered more elsewhere, would stay at their current employer.
2/ what sort of loyalty do super clubs offer? The answer is nil. If he was out of form or injured for an extended period then the Reds (and all clubs) would negotiate a significantly reduced package or cut him.
3/ he has a contract. The Reds were looking to (and did) broke that contract. I realise they were in a tough situation but virtually every private business would have a contract in place would expect that to be honoured.

It’s business. These things happen. He is a fantastic player and if he fits in with the team then he is worth having around. I see no integrity issue with how he acted.

Farva, the same contract conditions on hand at the Reds at the time were being re-negotiated by every franchise in Australia. Rodda wanted to move franchise but was using a franchise-wide issue to justify it. It is not the same thing as "Reds changed the rules so Rodda moved on". RA said no to changing franchise at the time due to the lack of equity to every other player in the comp. Nothing has changed since then bar 6 months. If the matter really does relate to the captaincy, then the bloke is a goose.

 

[RugbyReg]

I find this an incredibly naive position to take.
1/ how many people, if told they were getting a 60% pay cut while offered more elsewhere, would stay at their current employer.
2/ what sort of loyalty do super clubs offer? The answer is nil. If he was out of form or injured for an extended period then the Reds (and all clubs) would negotiate a significantly reduced package or cut him.
3/ he has a contract. The Reds were looking to (and did) broke that contract. I realise they were in a tough situation but virtually every private business would have a contract in place would expect that to be honoured.

It’s business. These things happen. He is a fantastic player and if he fits in with the team then he is worth having around. I see no integrity issue with how he acted.

every other player in Australia it would seem except for Rodda, Lucas and Hockings.

 

[farva]

Farva, the same contract conditions on hand at the Reds at the time were being re-negotiated by every franchise in Australia. Rodda wanted to move franchise but was using a franchise-wide issue to justify it. It is not the same thing as "Reds changed the rules so Rodda moved on". RA said no to changing franchise at the time due to the lack of equity to every other player in the comp. Nothing has changed since then bar 6 months. If the matter really does relate to the captaincy, then the bloke is a goose.

I’m not saying it was a Reds issue. He wasn’t happy with his salary being cut by 60%. There might have been captaincy issues too (I don’t agree that makes him a goose. If I am passed over for a promotion I might reconsider my tenure at that organisation too) and maybe other reasons none of us are aware of.
But I don’t blame him for his decision.

 

[farva]

every other player in Australia it would seem except for Rodda, Lucas and Hockings.

When the Force were cut from Super rugby, and DHP, RHP, Rona, Hardwick, Peni, Naisaranu, Philip, Coleman, Cottrell, Ruru, Rangi, etc left the Force instead of taking a pay cut and playin GRR, during a time of great need of the club, people understood the reasons and didn’t toss their toys out of the pram. Why are the Reds different?

 

[RugbyReg]

When the Force were cut from Super rugby, and DHP, RHP, Rona, Hardwick, Peni, Naisaranu, Philip, Coleman, Cottrell, Ruru, Rangi, etc left the Force instead of taking a pay cut and playin GRR, during a time of great need of the club, people understood the reasons and didn’t toss their toys out of the pram. Why are the Reds different?

because they didn't leave mid-season........

 

[Adam84]

I’m not saying it was a Reds issue. He wasn’t happy with his salary being cut by 60%. There might have been captaincy issues too (I don’t agree that makes him a goose. If I am passed over for a promotion I might reconsider my tenure at that organisation too) and maybe other reasons none of us are aware of.
But I don’t blame him for his decision.

I think his actions demonstrated he wasn’t captaincy material and validated the decision not to make him captain, how he acted is hardly leadership material. Unlike some of his lower paid teammates Rodda was still on a hefty salary and had extra provisions like sabbaticals built into his contract if he were to accept the pay cut.

Anyway, I’m sure he will be good for the Force on field next year

 

[Sully]

I wonder what Chris Feauai-Sautia thinks about how much loyalty the Reds have shown? He'd probably suggest a figure higher than zero.

Good luck with Rodda hope nothing goes pear shape. We all know who Rodda will put first.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think his actions demonstrated he wasn’t captaincy material and validated the decision not to make him captain, how he acted is hardly leadership material. Unlike some of his lower paid teammates Rodda was still on a hefty salary and had extra provisions like sabbaticals built into his contract if he were to accept the pay cut.

Anyway, I’m sure he will be good for the Force on field next year

He had a fallout and exercised an avenue to get out. Financially suffered as lost his RA top up. These sort of fallouts happen and not going to get into the ins and outs but no reason another oz side should not pick him up as (reds fans) might not like what he did but he did what he thought best for himself and not broken any laws etc so time to move on.

 

[Adam84]

He had a fallout and exercised an avenue to get out. Financially suffered as lost his RA top up. These sort of fallouts happen and not going to get into the ins and outs but no reason another oz side should not pick him up as (reds fans) might not like what he did but he did what he thought best for himself and not broken any laws etc so time to move on.

I’ve moved on and hope he goes well I think he has a lot to offer the Force and Wallabies, doesn’t mean I like him or think what he did was right.

Hockings and Lucas I think were poorly advised, apparently had concerns about the financial viability of RA to pay their contracted wages going forward, Rodda tried to manipulate the situation to switch teams.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I’ve moved on and hope he goes well I think he has a lot to offer the Force and Wallabies, doesn’t mean I like him or think what he did was right.

Hockings and Lucas I think were poorly advised, apparently had concerns about the financial viability of RA to pay their contracted wages going forward, Rodda tried to manipulate the situation to switch teams.

Rodda wanted out - regardless what you thought of his reasons for wanting out - never good idea to keep a disgruntled player on the books as just bad for everyone. Personally I think it is better for all the opportunity came up for him to break his contract as clearly not happy camper which not healthy to have around. Luca and Hockings sure took advise from their manager to cash in and take Japan financial options. I am probably more grateful we did not lose a lot more players as could have been ugly and those departures not seemed to harm the Reds as battling Brumbies as top oz side.

I actually think did not lose much with Lucas - Hockings perhaps from long term perspective but been well serviced by LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Blyth and unearthed gems like Uru who might not otherwise had got such game time to shine. In other words even without Rodda the Reds are doing just fine.

 

[Adam84]

Rodda wanted out - regardless what you thought of his reasons for wanting out - never good idea to keep a disgruntled player on the books as just bad for everyone. Personally I think it is better for all the opportunity came up for him to break his contract as clearly not happy camper which not healthy to have around. Luca and Hockings sure took advise from their manager to cash in and take Japan financial options. I am probably more grateful we did not lose a lot more players as could have been ugly and those departures not seemed to harm the Reds as battling Brumbies as top oz side.

I actually think did not lose much with Lucas - Hockings perhaps from long term perspective but been well serviced by LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and Blyth and unearthed gems like Uru who might not otherwise had got such game time to shine. In other words even without Rodda the Reds are doing just fine.

Probably right on Lucas, I’m not sure where he fits in the current Reds team.
I think Hockings was a loss for Australian Rugby, 2m bean poles are a dime a dozen, and he had fantastic hands for a big unit. That’s why I’m glad Rodda is returning.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Probably right on Lucas, I’m not sure where he fits in the current Reds team.
I think Hockings was a loss for Australian Rugby, 2m bean poles are a dime a dozen, and he had fantastic hands for a big unit. That’s why I’m glad Rodda is returning.

Hopefully Hocking still has plans to return to oz....as agree quality locks are still in short supply

 

[ForceFan]

Average age evidently doesn't mean much:

Average age Wales: 30 (6 Nations Champs 2020)
Average age Western Force: 28
Average age France: 27

 

[RugbyReg]

Force are playing 6 Nations?

 

[dru]

Force are playing 6 Nations?

France and Wales don't match Super Au quality?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Probably right on Lucas, I’m not sure where he fits in the current Reds team.
I think Hockings was a loss for Australian Rugby, 2m bean poles are a dime a dozen, and he had fantastic hands for a big unit. That’s why I’m glad Rodda is returning.

Adam, "dime a dozen " generally means the article in question is available in good numbers. I'm not sure that is exactly what you meant?

 

[kiap]

Adam, "dime a dozen " generally means the article in question is available in good numbers. I'm not sure that is exactly what you meant?

He meant thin on the ground. Like rocking horse dung. As scarce as hen's teeth.

 

[ForceFan]

There’s a concerning trend on this Western Force thread which warrants comment.

It seems that RugbyReg (RR) is becoming to Green & Gold Rugby, what Train Without a Station (TWAS) has become to The Roar. Both are Queenslanders who seem to carry a grudge for the Western Force “stealing” players from the Reds back in 2005.

I’m interested to know how others thought that the WF were expected to create a competitive team, when the WF was limited to the same number of OS players as the other franchises. This was in stark contrast to the numerous concessions offered to the Rebels during its formation (and since).
No-one should ever attempt to convince any Force fans about the presence of an “even playing field”.

The facts of the matter regarding the initial recruitment for the Western Force are as follows:
1. The ARU gave the WF very limited access to the existing 4 Super Rugby franchises.
2. The WF could only approach players during each team’s bye week.
3. The Reds just happened to present the first bye opportunity.
4. It wouldn’t have been possible to recruit players from the Reds if the players were not ready for a move or for the chance to be associated with something new.

Often Force Fans are asked to move on from the sacking of their team in 2017 – not quite 4 years ago.
I suggest that it’s also time for others to move on from what the Western Force had to do to establish a team during its formation – more than 16 years ago.

Nothing tells more about RR’s view of the Western Force that the establishment of the team threads for 2021.
RR established team threads for the Reds, Waratahs, Brumbies and Rebels on 2 June 2020.
I thought that it was telling that no Western Force thread was created so decided to wait and see how long it would take.
After waiting for 3 months, I chose to kick-off the Western Force 2021 thread on 6 Sep 2020, with what we then knew about the squad for 2021.
I hope that others get the same fantastic service that I received from RR as he immediately started to edit my post for me.
I s’pose that falls under editorial privilege.

To answer some of the questions raised by RR over the past 6 months, I’ll be providing an annual summary of what Andrew Forrest and his team have been doing, through Minderoo/Tattarang, to maintain a professional rugby team in Perth and grow the great game of Rugby Union in WA and throughout the Asia-Pacific Region.
It probably needs to be said, that there is no development that hasn't been sanctioned by World Rugby, the effected National Rugby Unions, and eventually, even Rugby Australia.

I suggest that more has been done in the past ~3 years than what any other entity has done to grow the game in our region in the professional era of Australian Rugby.
However, you're all entitled to have your own opinion in this regard.
That's one great aspect of forums.

For those who may be interested - keep your eye open for 2017 soon.