Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

Sorry DB, but this sort of horse-shit will not fertilise any rugby in Aus. Maybe feralise if that's what you mean.

And sorry BR. Honest. But I think DB is right.

At least that gives you two to feralise.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I will start by saying - I want all 5 teams to stay.

But lets say one HAST TO GO.

Now I'll say despite being the most successful Australian Team in soup, if a team has to be removed I'd remove the Brumbies.

• They are a pimple on the arse of Australia.
• Their success all very much deserved and yeah i loved watching, was partly / primarily due to the fact that NSW had / has political issues that still go on until this day.

If the Brumbies players lifted the quality of Force & Rebels i think that would fertalise the long term growth of the game.

What is the future growth of the game in ACT like? - honest question.

Yes I have been a fan of the Brumbies over the years - this is in know way to start an arguement as i want all 5 teams. But lets cut everything back and lets look at fertalising and growing the game and what would be the best for Australian Rugby in 5 years, and how it could / would look.

Given the accurate comment re the Tahs and some type of constipation affecting the reds it hardly seems logical to sack the Brumbies because they preyed on the deficiencies of both in identifying and fostering talent.
The best thing that could be done for super rugby in NSW/Sydney would be to grant another license to a Team based on the brumbies early ethos of "us v them".

 

[dru]

I still feel rather depressed about what could happen this year with cutting a team still on the books..as Force look likely to be cut if any oz Super Rugby team is to be cut and if ignore short term finance considerations (read: ARU broke and supporting Super Rugby pro competition that is completely broken as a model and fan support does not help) means sacrificial lambs have to found for short term finances despite obvious (imo) long term benefits from what great things WA Rugby doing with homegrown talent coming through senior pro ranks etc etc.

And now I am told Eastwood taken over Rams and may not see them play at Concord which is local for me..gees might be down to watching the pirates next year at this rate. But yeah I really like NRC and points system etc so bit more appeal for me so hope Pappy wants to keep Concord thing going for the RAMS. Ok sorry not Super Rugby related..but then again maybe it is as we want alternatives and NRC has set us up to be more than it is in longer form with better club engagement so may well yet provide the compliment to Super Rugby.

If the ARU cut ANY team, I will certainly be looking for alternatives. I'm not sure that as a point of principal I am capable of not following the Reds, at the end of the day I don't think I can follow my principals. But I'll not be as involved in Super Rugby as I have been. Not at all.

Christ if someone like me is thinking about Shute Shield there is some serious shit going on.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Tough call. Very tough. Really tough.



(And IMO accurate.)



Better with five.

You know I would agree with Dave on so many levels (re: prefer 5) but if one was to go can understand why people would look at Brumbies as yes compared to Vic and WA markets does not offer same growth 'potential'.

But Brumbies have shown repeatedly how they can turn others states leftovers into great players and their track record speaks for itself. So no I can't justify cutting the Brumbies or merging etc.

I just struggle with cutting any team in the markets we are in as they all make sense long term but short term finances are totally f#4#%55d
because we have put all our pro eggs in flawed Super Rugby model, so for short term salvation we have to make a sacrifice, unfortunately.

But yes I would be happier if we did not damage Vic, WA or ACT market (forget the latter, they are not under threat and for justified reasons imo).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If the ARU cut ANY team, I will certainly be looking for alternatives. I'm not sure that as a point of principal I am capable of not following the Reds, at the end of the day I don't think I can follow my principals. But I'll not be as involved in Super Rugby as I have been. Not at all.



Christ if someone like me is thinking about Shute Shield there is some serious shit going on.

Dru yeh I hear you as someone like me is also considering Shute Shield (Pirates) as that is saying something...as nothing against SS but more your typical pro national team follower as time poor and more aligned with the masses who like national comps (read someone present/past followed A-League, NRL, Big Bash and AFL which all national comps)...

 

[BLR]

The best thing that could be done for super rugby in NSW/Sydney would be to grant another license to a Team based on the brumbies early ethos of "us v them".

Soooooo, move Brumbies to West Sydney?

 

[dru]

You do understand (cut)

Gnostic, your condescending manner is only overrun by your belief in the NSW cardigans.

For what it's worth, I agree that a national domestic comp would do probably better by pulling with it existing tribalism. I agree that for all the good that has been achieved in the NRC (I maintain PLENTY of good) that it's not a comp that is likely to catch the national interest in any great way for years.

OK good.

What's next bloke? I religiously read and study the public releases around this. Have not yet found any alternative from the SRU. NOT from Dwyer, Papworth, Poidivin, Begg, Jones or ANY of the guys proving so good at "tearing down the house".

I am left comparing two incompetent groups, and strangely enough the ARU, in my mind, can't be beaten for, well, "I'm not supporting that".

So I'm left with the SRU. On record vehemently as saying, against my better judgement, I'm with them.

Would you care to elaborate as to what I have "bought"?

I'm Not feeling comfortable in the slightest.

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic, your condescending manner is only overrun by your belief in the NSW cardigans.



For what it's worth, I agree that a national domestic comp would do probably better by pulling with it existing tribalism. I agree that for all the good that has been achieved in the NRC (I maintain PLENTY of good) that it's not a comp that is likely to catch the national interest in any great way for years.



OK good.



What's next bloke? I religiously read and study the public releases around this. Have not yet found any alternative from the SRU. NOT from Dwyer, Papworth, Poidivin, Begg, Jones or ANY of the guys proving so good at "tearing down the house".



I am left comparing two incompetent groups, and strangely enough the ARU, in my mind, can't be beaten for, well, "I'm not supporting that".



So I'm left with the SRU. On record vehemently as saying, against my better judgement, I'm with them.



Would you care to elaborate as yo what I have "bought"?



I'm Not feeling comfortable in the slightest.

Condescending? BELIEF in NSW cardigans by which I assume you mean anybody running the NSWRU? Me have belief in the management of Rugby in Australia for anything except draining it of its very life and playing stupid games. to maintain there own positions?

 

[Dave Beat]

Soooooo, move Brumbies to West Sydney?

And call them The Greatest in Western Sydney (GWS - Marc II).

 

[dru]

Soooooo, move Brumbies to West Sydney?

It's no more funny than when SRU reps or Waratah Ltd reps say it about the Force. So this time I'm going to say what I was thinking when these issues came up with the Force --- take your emoticon and shove it up (I'll stop there).

 

[dru]

Condescending? BELIEF in NSW cardigans by which I assume you mean anybody running the NSWRU? Me have belief in the management of Rugby in Australia for anything except draining it of its very life and playing stupid games. to maintain there own positions?

Gnostic it's been a very particular view of how this works. Initially I thought you sat sufficiently outside the norm that it made your views important.

Sorry mate, I haven't seen a lot of change of your views through the current debacle. This makes me suspicious.

Put SRU to the side. How do you propose to take premier clubs in NSW and QLD (a lessor issue) into a domestic national comp? Christ this is not being difficult. I hear a lot of crap over what is wrong with NRC. Good, some of it is justified.

Change it. Tell me how.

The cardigans are not apparently willing. Perhaps you are different?

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic it's been a very particular view of how this works. Initially I thought you sat sufficiently outside the norm that it made your views important.



Sorry mate, I haven't seen a lot of change of your views through the current debacle. This makes me suspicious.



Put SRU to the side. How do you propose to take premier clubs in NSW and QLD (a lessor issue) into a domestic national comp? Christ this is not being difficult. I hear a lot of crap over what is wrong with NRC. Good, some of it is justified.



Change it. Tell me how.



The cardigans are not apparently willing. Perhaps you are different?

To start with the ARU has to go, along with the NSWRU and the QRU and the game simply has to be administered centrally for cost reduction, efficiency and by an truly independent commission/board whatever.

The political games, predominantly between Qld and NSW have been to the detriment of the game here since forever, and management is unwieldy, stagnant and totally opaque because of it.

When we have effective management reform we can look at a truly national club comp bringing the Vic, WA and ACT clubs up along. It could take any number of forms Heineken cup style, finalists only..... there are quite a few viable options around.

My thoughts have always been that if the current club level rugby supporters, which are now starting to out-number the supporters of Super Rugby, are not engaged with the competition from the start it will not meet any of the requirements that the NRC was purported to have been created for.

I still don't know who the cardigans are? I know they were a Swedish band but that is it.

 

[Quick Hands]

So I'm left with the SRU. On record vehemently as saying, against my better judgement, I'm with them.

 

[dru]

I still don't know who the cardigans are? I know they were a Swedish band but that is it.

This is usual for a NSW pundit, have given me nothing for actually how it is proposed to take the club tribalism and lock it into a national domestic game. <surprise>

OK "Cardigan" = a person who sees NSW rugby as necessarily beyond the rest of Australia. Don't care if this is NSWRU, ARU, or the fricken clubs. Or a rugby fan.

As a rugby fan who lives in NSW, but didn't come from here, the local attitudes are just outrageous. And it comes out in much of the public releases from Dwyer/Begg/Poidivin/Papworth/Jones god on it goes. And THEY cry outrage at the cardigans - presumed to be the NSW people who manage to get into ARU. Crazy.

The silver spoon attitude is rife.

Is that not you Gnostic? All I can say is I read you. I don't think I'm unintelligent [hell, I'm cruising for a bruising there]. I like your passion. I like that you like rugby. From what I see i don't like your rugby politics.

If that makes me a bad man, hell I'll try to improve, but I can live with it.


Better off with five. But let's just get on with it. Time to burn the ARU house down. Are the SRU going to lead this? I'm in if so and I'll live with the consequences of my discontent..

 

[cyclopath]

^^^^^^^
Gee, it's awfully good of you to label us as NSW fans so poorly. Not sure that contributes a whole lot to fostering discussion.

 

[Quick Hands]

 

[dru]

^^^^^^^
Gee, it's awfully good of you to label us as NSW fans so poorly. Not sure that contributes a whole lot to fostering discussion.

Hmm, clumsy writing on my part perhaps. Rugby fans in NSW who think NSW rugby is more important than Australia rugby. But, as you know, I was targeting a particular NSW rugby fan.

In the mean time how about this.

It is my reading of the ARU documentation put forward that we are not actually fighting against a drop to four teams, but very shortly to a drop to three. My major concern here is with a loss of National footprint. <nothing new there>

So I take a view to which three teams might best carry the National rugby power, AND hold the national footprint. Neither NSW or Qld require Super rugby to stay a going concern.

My solution, proposed here shooting from the hip, is a three team model being Force; Rebels; Brumbies. SRU and QPR will make a very adequate feeder group to the SANZAAR comp and will in a comparatively controlled manner lose little in local rugby generation.

Perfect.

Now let's see how long it takes for a domestic national (well interstate) comp to be generated. Hah - maybe we can focus the thinking. Lock out NSW and Old and stand back! Works for me. (Kind of.) You see Cycle, I can annoy my own state just as easily as NSW cardigans.

Are we here for rugby, or for our State sympathies?

Neither Vic nor WA deserve to be culled. No that's wrong, there is no franchise is Australia where an argument can not be made for culling where the real issue is 5 - 3.


This however is not the solution. Attitudes in NSW (particularly) and in Old (annoying this) mean that alternatives must be thought through if the nonsense politics can't be ridden over.

AGAIN I will say. I don't like the SRU. But they are the closest to intent to burning down the ARU. I'm in.

Let the ARU come to senses and actually argue agin.

 

[BLR]

To start with the ARU has to go, along with the NSWRU and the QRU and the game simply has to be administered centrally for cost reduction, efficiency and by an truly independent commission/board whatever.

I like this, start again like the A-League, finally clean out the obsolete.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Soooooo, move Brumbies to West Sydney?

Note: I deliberately did not say western Sydney.
I think, like me (for other reasons), sydneysiders would love to able to turn their back on the Tahs yet not feel guilt at doing so. It would be a great catharsis in oz rugby.
They have bumbled, mumbled and bungled their way through 21 years of pro rugby at enormous cost to the game's viability in this country.
If they must stay let them do so without Sydney people feeling an obligation to support them because this is the biggest rugbybstate and those people feel oz rugby needs a strong tahs.
The Sydney Shetlands, I say.

 

[Dave Beat]

You know I would agree with Dave on so many levels (re: prefer 5) but if one was to go can understand why people would look at Brumbies as yes compared to Vic and WA markets does not offer same growth 'potential'.

But Brumbies have shown repeatedly how they can turn others states leftovers into great players and their track record speaks for itself. So no I can't justify cutting the Brumbies or merging etc.

I just struggle with cutting any team in the markets we are in as they all make sense long term but short term finances are totally f#4#%55d
because we have put all our pro eggs in flawed Super Rugby model, so for short term salvation we have to make a sacrifice, unfortunately.

But yes I would be happier if we did not damage Vic, WA or ACT market (forget the latter, they are not under threat and for justified reasons imo).

I agree with all of that.

Especially other states rejects into a great team, and their track record speaks for itself - it certainly does.
I believe they are succesful with this becuase it is about team, not player, and this develops a bond that is hard to beat.

Yes I am a fan of the Brumbies.

I was simply looking at the long term sucess and strength of rugby and how to best acheive that.

The stars of ACT, like yesteryear have reached the Walabes from the ACT.
The club comp down there has always been strong, and flourished.

I just think if WA & VIC keep doing the work they have done over the years the return will be far greater.

as for supporting the SS & the Pirates - makes for a great afternoon in the sun with your mates and kids / grandkids running around having fun.