Wallabies v France, Brisbane, Sat 17th July, 8pm

[Slim 293]

Still .. selections need to be managed around better performance in the Super Rugby combinations. Cleary Wilson and McDermott being a key combination, particularly in the question over our breakdown over the past two games.

I’m not sure any of that is true though……….

 

[RugbyReg]

It's time to stop faffing about with Tupou. This 'he's such a good finisher' stuff is crap particularly when he showed on the Tuesday night that he is such a good starter. If we aren't getting enough from AAA off the bench, then get rid of him (note I think Pfitzy said it was more the Swain/Bell combo that lost that last scrum).

Tupou is now 25 with almost 80 super rugby caps and 25 test caps.

Of those 25 he's only started in 7.

He's clearly one of our top 3 players is he not? Top 5 at least. He's genuinely a freak of nature. The type of player we have been jealous of the kiwis in having, and we're restricting him to 25 minute bursts at the end of games. We've got to start giving him regular starts and getting him going at it for 70 plus minutes. He's a once in a generation player that will be crucial to any RWC chance, let alone Bledisloe Cup.

 

[Wilson]

Play him off the bench, but bring him on 20 minutes in.

I'm not even sure if I'm joking.

 

[TSR]

Agree with the sentiment Reg - but I will say in this particular case it would have been a very tough ask for him to back up after Tuesday.

I remember hearing Wayne Bennett talk about how regularly they would have to deal with origin players having form slumps in the second half of the year because of the wear & tear and muscle fatigue of origin. I know this is different because Tupou doesn’t have to turn up for his club next week, and I don’t profess to be an expert on load management for high performance athletes, but I would hate to see him pick up an injury because of bad load management. But I otherwise 100% agree with your point about starting him versus bringing him off the bench.

Speaking of load management, I wonder if there is any chance that it was decided early that guys like Swinton & Uelese were going to be used just for this test and were given a different training resume in terms of peak load/taper so they were primed for this?

 

[Joe Blow]

BPA is going to have played a lot of minutes having started every test. Switching AAA and TT makes sense as it does seem to even out their time a bit.
I reckon it should be a horses for courses arrangement. They are both world class tightheads which is a luxury we do not have anywhere else across the park. Having said that TT should get the majority of the starts within normal schedules.

 

[RugbyReg]

he played 28 minutes in the first test and 51 in the 2nd. That's less than 80 minutes in what will be a week and a half. Less than Slipper, BPA, Philip, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Valetini, Hooper, Wilson and AAA.

I don't buy that argument at all.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree with you Reg. You want him playing at least 50 minutes a game and probably more and the only sensible way to do that is with him starting.

It's too risky from a replacement perspective to plan that he's going to play 50+ minutes from the bench. While the starting THP can come back on it means you've used two replacements on the same position so one bench player can't be used.

I think that he's excellent off the bench and that impact is highly desirable but we need to be utilising him as one of our key players for the bulk of the game.

It's become pretty clear over the last couple of weeks that we realistically have three world class players right now that are consistently good and Tupou is one of them.

 

[Dctarget]

 

[TSR]

he played 28 minutes in the first test and 51 in the 2nd. That's less than 80 minutes in what will be a week and a half. Less than Slipper, BPA, Philip, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Valetini, Hooper, Wilson and AAA.

I don't buy that argument at all.

Fair enough - and like I said I am no expert, so my fears may be completely without foundation.

I did also think his form started to dip a bit at the end of TT, but I thought he was bloody good on Tuesday. And, in terms of Rennie’s public feedback that he wanted more repeat efforts I thought there was plenty of evidence of that too.

Whilst I think Ala'alatoa remains a quality player, I feel there is a clear step down from Tupou now.

 

[Braveheart81]

This is where comments from Rennie (I think it was) about Tupou needing to improve his conditioning etc. to take that next step to becoming one of the best props in the world and fulfilling his potential are relevant.

He's clearly capable of being the best THP in world rugby and to be at a point where there isn't even any consideration that you might use him for his impact because he's too good not to start.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Tate was very noisy about the team needing to start faster. Now he has his chance, and he has raised the bar himself. Shake em up Tate.

He just has to pick his moments and run. We haven't had a really threatening running No 9 since Will's early days. Do that, and he'll do all right.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The coaching team (probably more capable and astute than us desktop battlers) selected their best team based on a combination of form, previous experience and intuition at that point in time.

What you're suggesting is purely based on the benefit of hindsight - no one prior to the first test was screaming for a Paisami/ Ikitau centre combination or Daugunu over Wright; these weren't clear-cut decisions.

There's hypocrisy in claiming it's a big ask for a new back line in a deciding test, but not applying the same logic to the first test and claiming there should have been mass changes for Game 2; I would have thought that the first test against the French was an equally big ask for that new back line.

Not too many suggesting Paisami/Ikitau but I was one of the few. MT quite clearly had little form to write home about in Super this year, and Paisami's form at 12 was always stronger than at 13.

The hypocrisy is defending Rennie's decision to give Gordon and To'omua another chance after piss poor efforts while applauding the dropping of Wright after one poor test following his very good efforts in tests last year.

All players coming into the third test side are on a hiding to nothing. Had the changes (and I'm only talking Tate in place of Gordon and Paisami to 12 and Ikitau to replace To'omua) been made for test No 2, all players from both tests would have had a chance to be assessed for what has turned out to be the deciding test.

All in all, a very poor strategic approach by the coaches/selectors.

 

[Derpus]

Not too many suggesting Paisami/Ikitau but I was one of the few. MT quite clearly had little form to write home about in Super this year, and Paisami's form at 12 was always stronger than at 13.

The hypocrisy is defending Rennie's decision to give Gordon and To'omua another chance after piss poor efforts while applauding the dropping of Wright after one poor test following his very good efforts in tests last year.

What do you mean? Wright was pants in the first test too. Gordon has been benched and Wright dropped after two bad games. Unless you are suggesting that Lonergan should come in for Gordon (who improved in his second test while Wright got worse).

I don't see any hypocrisy? You can quibble about individual selections but the strategy is definitely sound. Best side first two tests to try and wrap it up before the short turn around test.

 

[I like to watch]

This is where comments from Rennie (I think it was) about Tupou needing to improve his conditioning etc. to take that next step to becoming one of the best props in the world and fulfilling his potential are relevant.

He's clearly capable of being the best THP in world rugby and to be at a point where there isn't even any consideration that you might use him for his impact because he's too good not to start.

Huh?
FFS he’s not the issue.
playing him 5 minutes more, or 5 minutes less is window dressing.

they have sent down a squad with 4 starters in their last serious test.
and we struggle to compete with them.
This should be a serious wake up call.

 

[TSR]

Huh?
FFS he’s not the issue.
playing him 5 minutes more, or 5 minutes less is window dressing.

they have sent down a squad with 4 starters in their last serious test.
and we struggle to compete with them.
This should be a serious wake up call.

I don’t understand the point of your post.

Reg made a comment on Tupou and BH & I responded to it.

WTF has that got to do with your post?

 

[cyclopath]

Fair enough - and like I said I am no expert, so my fears may be completely without foundation.

I did also think his form started to dip a bit at the end of TT, but I thought he was bloody good on Tuesday. And, in terms of Rennie’s public feedback that he wanted more repeat efforts I thought there was plenty of evidence of that too.

Whilst I think Ala'alatoa remains a quality player, I feel there is a clear step down from Tupou now.

This. Tupou looked better as a starter and a finisher than Ala'alatoa which is not slight on Ala'alatoa at all who is a quality player. The aim has to be to have Tupou playing more minutes, rather than fewer in the future and that means transitioning to a starter. Not a bad conundrum to have at THP.

 

[dru]

BPA is going to have played a lot of minutes having started every test. Switching AAA and TT makes sense as it does seem to even out their time a bit.
I reckon it should be a horses for courses arrangement. They are both world class tightheads which is a luxury we do not have anywhere else across the park. Having said that TT should get the majority of the starts within normal schedules.

Given combinations are considered a huge KPI these days why weren’t BPA and Tupou linked in both 1 & 2?

 

[Joe Blow]

Given combinations are considered a huge KPI these days why weren’t BPA and Tupou linked in both 1 & 2?

I think thats right except BPA will scrum well with either AAA or TT, same with Uelese. The problem was that despite playing together at the Brumbies the AAA/Lornegan combo was not strong enough. As Fitzy suggested, there was some issues with Bell and Swain and the other two could not compensate
We now go in with two very strong scrumming front rows. Any combination will work
We need to make sure that our lineout is strong. I think we lost 2-3 on our own throw on Tuesday.

 

[Up the Guts]

Agree on Tupou but would say more broadly that it looks like DR has gone for size off the bench.

 

[wamberal]

Fair enough - and like I said I am no expert..

You seem to be about the only poster who is not an expert!!!