Brumbies v Reds Super Rugby round 14

[gel]

The wife made me go to dinner tonight instead of watching the game live (pepe's at Newmarket, pretty decent Mexican food btw), so just watched the recording. She loves reds dearly, but loves socializing more.

Steve Walsh warned the players and the players continued to infringe. Just about every call he made was correct, even the last one. The game ending up being an arm wrestle with force-em back kicking was the players fault, not the ref's, but to be expected with what both teams were playing for. Pretty obvious that both teams were just too psyched (if there is such a thing).

The reds looked like the team more likely to score (more dominant more often) outside of penalties and given they were the only team to score a try, I am glad they won. Obviously being a red fan, I am happy from that aspect as well, but a pet hate of mine is a team losing when they were the only ones to cross the line.

Brumbies defended well, and a quality outfit. I feel pretty badly for the fly half at the end, but he's obviously very very good and will shake that off.

 

[Scott Allen]

Reds have a great run home. You've got a bye and you'd have to be favourites over the Rebels, Highlanders and Waratahs. Definitely 12 points in the season for you guys. Shame about Horwill.

Brumbies have Rebels, Force, Waratahs and Blues in the run home - that sounds like 18 points for them on the way home (5 Rebels, 5 Force, 4 Waratahs and 4 Blues) so Reds will have to win all games to scrape into the top 6 and rely on the Brumbies dropping the game against the Tahs or the Blues to top the Aussie conference.

 

[ChargerWA]

I agree Walsh was correct in his calls. But his whole attitude and demeanour need adjustment. I don't expect him to pussy foot around and say nice things to the players, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a referee at this level has better player management skills than Walsh displays.

 

[RedsHappy]

The breakdown was a dog's breakfast and Walsh could have had a few penalties to choose from each time.

There was more than normal 'chatter' from both sides so I can understand why he told them to shut up early on. A lot of 'expert refs' on the field making his job harder than it already is.

The Brumbies would have been undeserving victors if they did get the win at the end. At one stage they had only 28% possession and that isn't enough to win anything.

The Reds used a similar game plan to the Brisbane game, with a few tweaks and it worked a treat. McKenzie said teams haven't respected the Brumbies and have paid the price but they didn't fall into that trap this time around.

Quade played the 80 minutes without discomfort and the stop start nature of the game allowed him to do that. He was asked at 60 mins how he felt and stayed on the field due to the limited involvement. Although I don't think that can explain his shocker in the 27th minute (cross kick out on the full)

Brumbies were so very close though, J White, Mowen et al have built an outstanding team of low profile players that's a great credit to Australian rugby.

 

[laps]

I can't believe Jake White chose to start Speight. He could barley run, as shown by jogging beside monahan in that first try. Apparently he was badly injured but told "he couldn't do any more damage"... He didn't want to play as he wouldn't have been effective.

Mog's kicking has been terrible last 2 weeks, I hope they start giving Coleman a run. I also wish White took that last kick at goal. He has been in pressure situations like that with grand finals and has nailed them.

 

[liquor box]

From a losing Brumbies supporter, I thought he did a good job.

I thought he has been good all year, I actually think his best refereeing was earlier in the season. There was one game where he would stand on the opposite side to the feed and place one hand on each hookers shoulder (lightly) and was using this to jusdge which team was hitting in the scrum too early. He stopped after a week but I thought it was a very clever way to make a judgment.

I like a referee who tells the player who is boss and has no issue giving penalties, It is not a referees fault if he has to blow a lot of penalties, it is the players commiting them that are the issue.

 

[Slim 293]

I think there are some good points made about Walsh so far...

Technically, his refereeing of the game is sound...

But maybe he doesn't earn the respect from players in the way that he speaks to them?

Anyways, this game had disaster written all over it for me...

I've never seen the Brumbies win a game that I've tuned in late for...

And I was running late to the pub... got there to see the score 0 - 7...

Hopefully a big win next week makes it all right...

I think Mogg is due for a rest, mainly because he and Moore are the only 2 players to start every game this year...

He hasn't looked as sharp the past couple of weeks, although everytime he has a run he looks dangerous... just needs to get that accuracy right with the kicking... otherwise he's doing everything else right...

 

[Scotty]

Brumbies have Rebels, Force, Waratahs and Blues in the run home - that sounds like 18 points for them on the way home (5 Rebels, 5 Force, 4 Waratahs and 4 Blues) so Reds will have to win all games to scrape into the top 6 and rely on the Brumbies dropping the game against the Tahs or the Blues to top the Aussie conference.

If the reds get in, I expect both teams will. Reds main completion is the highlanders, who they can take points off and the sharks (result vs the stormers makes it harder for reds).

 

[liquor box]

But maybe he doesn't earn the respect from players in the way that he speaks to them?

maybe the players dont deserve his respect!

What happened to saying "sir" to the ref or only having the captain ask questions?

I would love to see a referee set a precedence and just yellow card players who backchat, it is a sign of disrespect and maybe on some level it would keep the players a little more grounded in their whole life in general when they realise they cant have everything just because they earn a lot of money playing sport.


on another note, when I played U19's in Central North we had a preist that used to referee, he would not allow swearing on the field, even if you were stomped in the nuts he would expect no swearing!

 

[cyclopath]

maybe the players dont deserve his respect!

What happened to saying "sir" to the ref or only having the captain ask questions?

I would love to see a referee set a precedence and just yellow card players who backchat, it is a sign of disrespect and maybe on some level it would keep the players a little more grounded in their whole life in general when they realise they cant have everything just because they earn a lot of money playing sport.


on another note, when I played U19's in Central North we had a preist that used to referee, he would not allow swearing on the field, even if you were stomped in the nuts he would expect no swearing!

Completely agree with this - it's a two way street. The amount of "reffing" from a number of Reds and Brumbies players directed at Walsh shows him no respect to start with. When he tries to explain a penalty to Horwill who effectively says "Yeah, yeah" and tries to walk away, what does that say? He stomped on it, and so he should. At least he makes an effort to explain why things are being ruled as they are. Better than last week when one ref, when asked why a penalty was given , told the captain basically "you work it out".
Yeah, he probably talks too much, but I prefer to see a ref make a fairly accurate performance, rather than one that "lets it flow" by letting breakdowns etc devolve into utter chaos, or is absolutely inconsistent with their rulings from minute to minute.
I agree with Scott that he was let down a bit by the ARs, but apart from the "Hand-hook" by the Brumbies, there were no shockers.
Saia Fainga'a was pretty lucky, IMO, as he spent an awful amount of time on the wrong side, and came in from the side repeatedly. He had a pretty busy game though.

 

[Sully]

I really can't understand the criticism of the Ref. I thought he was clear in his rulings and strict on the shit. I had no problem with his display. In fact I loved it.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I just saw attacking players diving over unpenalised... (but I only saw the second half)

 

[fatprop]

gee this was a shit game of rugby

 

[Reddy!]

Frustrating game to watch but I was pretty happy about the result. Very lucky to miss that, and I feel sorry for Zack Holmes who was under heaps of pressure to make that kick in only his second game.

 

[The Red Baron]

gee this was a shit game of rugby

I have to agree there. There was no real flow to the game. Players constantly infringed, and you can't blame the ref for doing what he is paid to do - ref the game.

Neither team was willing to take the game by the scruff of the neck. They were too busy niggling each other.

 

[Empire]

Well, actually you can blame the ref - he has a thing called a yellow card, perhaps he should pull it out for repeated infringements?

 

[Epi]

To those defending Steve Walsh I would just make the following points:

1. When an attacking team is moving the ball forward with sufficient support they should reasonably expect to recycle that ball. Once the probability of multiple phase play is gone attacking rugby goes with it and you get a kick-a-thon. That's what happened last night. I was watching the attacking team get pinged for infringements in rucks with plenty of support. To the letter of the law they might have been legitimate penalties.. but what was the defending team doing that was making it necessary for the attacking team to infringe to keep the ball.... These weren't instances when the ball carrier was isolated - these were rucks where 99% of the time you'd expect to retain possession.

2. Walsh talks way too much to the players. He is a show pony and the players clearly don't respect him.. The look on Robinson's face after Walsh pulled him up about shouting too much was priceless. It doesn't matter the context - respect is earned.

3. Officiousness has no place in professional rugby.

 

[Red slug]

I agree Walsh was correct in his calls. But his whole attitude and demeanour need adjustment. I don't expect him to pussy foot around and say nice things to the players, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a referee at this level has better player management skills than Walsh displays.

Walsh is normally very pleasant and accommodating to the players in his language but I believe last night he may have been fore warned of the intent and intensity of the event eventually everybody settled down after half time with little niggles around the edges.

 

[cyclopath]

To those defending Steve Walsh I would just make the following points:

1. When an attacking team is moving the ball forward with sufficient support they should reasonably expect to recycle that ball. Once the probability of multiple phase play is gone attacking rugby goes with it and you get a kick-a-thon. That's what happened last night. I was watching the attacking team get pinged for infringements in rucks with plenty of support. To the letter of the law they might have been legitimate penalties.. but what was the defending team doing that was making it necessary for the attacking team to infringe to keep the ball.... These weren't instances when the ball carrier was isolated - these were rucks where 99% of the time you'd expect to retain possession.

2. Walsh talks way too much to the players. He is a show pony and the players clearly don't respect him.. The look on Robinson's face after Walsh pulled him up about shouting too much was priceless. It doesn't matter the context - respect is earned.

3. Officiousness has no place in professional rugby.

1. Maybe the defending team was competing hard for the ball, as they are entitled to do? That's just a possibility. Both teams had some good "on-ball" players.
2. The players are not the arbiters of who should be afforded respect, especially someone like Beau who never shuts up. It works both ways. Refs don't have to tug their forelock to mouthy players so that they might throw them a scrap of their respect
3. In general, being overly officious inhibits flowing play, agreed. But the ref is there to officiate, and if they let everything go it becomes a total mess. If players respond to an early crackdown, the game can progress. If they just keep trying the same stuff, it becomes stilted. Again, it is their responsibility to listen to the ref and adapt to how he is running the game.

 

[Red slug]

To those defending Steve Walsh I would just make the following points:

1. When an attacking team is moving the ball forward with sufficient support they should reasonably expect to recycle that ball. Once the probability of multiple phase play is gone attacking rugby goes with it and you get a kick-a-thon. That's what happened last night. I was watching the attacking team get pinged for infringements in rucks with plenty of support. To the letter of the law they might have been legitimate penalties.. but what was the defending team doing that was making it necessary for the attacking team to infringe to keep the ball.... These weren't instances when the ball carrier was isolated - these were rucks where 99% of the time you'd expect to retain possession.

2. Walsh talks way too much to the players. He is a show pony and the players clearly don't respect him.. The look on Robinson's face after Walsh pulled him up about shouting too much was priceless. It doesn't matter the context - respect is earned.

3. Officiousness has no place in professional rugby.

1. The law is the law it is there for a reason. Ref is there to enforce it with the help of the ARs
2. Ref should expect the respect when he pulls on that shirt and enters the field, that's Rugby! It is one of the things that make Rugby different from other codes.
3. Walsh always talks to the players every game. Players frustration with their own & team mates performances doesn't mean you disrespect others good performance.