National Rugby Championship 2014

[Braveheart81]

The ARU must ensure that there is reasonable segregation between the SS and the NRC.

The merits of NRC bids shouldn't be decided on the strength of players already at that club or clubs or the number of Super Rugby players that play there but on whether the bid can provide the infrastructure to support a team.

The ARU will then need to make sure that the successful bids are then provided with the requisite mix of players to ensure they are competitive on the field.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Brand influence and money is why they're getting it.

From what I'm hearing all the Sydney teams will have a strong brand though. Even the new ones leveraging the short but well loved ARC or their club history and the clubs involved are doing their best to set it all up as sustainable and best for rugby practices involved (at least in that clubs opinion).

Rams v Uni or Uni v Randwick or Rams v Rays are all exciting fixtures to think about.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Brand influence is a crock of shit. If it actually was worth anything they would be a lot better off than they are now. Yes it's the most widely known Sydney Premier team, but it's a bit of "the hottest fat chick" type scenario.

 

[Highlander35]

Brand influence is a crock of shit. If it actually was worth anything they would be a lot better off than they are now. Yes it's the most widely known Sydney Premier team, but it's a bit of "the hottest fat chick" type scenario.

9/10 times it's the goth chick. If that helps at all.

Sent from my LG-P713 using Tapatalk

 

[Jagman]

Here's a list of hypothetical team sheets without moving anyone arbitrarily. Left out the two Qld teams as they will probably just be the reds squad split in half. Hence no Qlders have been moved back to Brisbane and only Sydney orienting players have been moved back to their club or origin but not all. It’s just interesting to see the "would be" quality difference between NSW teams and the satellite Super Rugby teams without much intervention from above. I left out about 26 Likely Wallabies, not all Wallabies squad members (where are they going to get match fitness from if they don't play?).

North Harbour
C Ah-Nau, R Dalziel, S Manu, C Thompson, G Peterson, J Dempsey, J Reid, L Jones, M Lucas, S Treeweek, P McCabe, C Tuatarra-Morrison, M Hingano, A Northham, C Crawford.

Balmain/Syd Uni
J Tilse, T Latu, L Weeks, L Winton, W Skellton, D Dennis, P McCutcheon, B McCalman, N Phipps, B Foley, G Jeloudev, J Dargaville, M Hodge, P Betham, T Kingston.

Melbourne
T Smith, P Leafa, M Lahiff, H Pyle, C Neville, C Fainga'a, S Fuglistaller, L Timani, N Stirzaker, B Hegarty, T English, L Mitchell, M Inman, T Veainu, J Woodward.
Res Super Rugby players: Alo-Emile, Aholelei, Rokobaro, Meehen, Jeffries, McMahon, L Burgess

Greater Sydney Rams
T Faulkner, H Roach, A Ala'alatoa, A Coleman, S Cummins, L McCaffrey, C Alcock, J Holloway, J Stannard, J Debreczini, U O'Sullivan, M McDougal, R Horne, A Alofa, B Volavola.

Canberra
S Sio, S Siliva, R Smith, J Whetton, S Carter, J Smiler, J Butler, F Auelua, C Hoffman, L Cronje, C Rathbone, R Coleman, A Smith, H Speight, J Mogg.
Reserve Super Rugby Players: JP Smith, Van der Walt, Dowset, Power

Perth
P Cowen, H Tessman, K Longbottom, W Steenkamp, S Wykes, H McMeniman, M Hodgson, Standar, I Prior, Z Holmes, L Brache, K Godwin, S Rololea, D Haylette-Petty, L Morohan.
Res Super Rugby Players: Heiberg, Abel, Ebersohn, Cottrell, Burton, Lowrens,

NSW Country
T Metcher, J Mann-Rea, P Ryan, R Walton, P Battye, R Stanford, T Dyer, AJ Gilbert, A Faleali'i, A Roberts, A Gibbon, T Carter, P Delit, J Pinchen, N Trist.

Sydney East/UNSW

F Asa, N Halangahu, J Falefa, P Mathers, M Chapman, L Lam, S Hoiles, T Gray, B McKibbon, D Horwitz, E Ford, B Meakes, M Carraro, E Stubbs, A Lavin.

 

[Slim 293]

S Sio, S Siliva, R Smith, J Whetton, S Carter, J Smiler, J Butler, F Auelua, C Hoffman, L Cronje, C Rathbone, R Coleman, A Smith, H Speight, J Mogg.
Reserve Super Rugby Players: JP Smith, Van der Walt, Dowset, Power

I'd also expect the likes of Sio, Speight and Mogg (at least 2/3 of them) to potentially be in the Wallabies so that will create a few extra spots for some Canberra players.........

 

[Dave Beat]

@Jagman - well done putting that together.

I have often wondered how it would look after the selection table, and whilst there could be all sorts of variations you did a great job picking and leaving numbers and a good team in WA & VIC.

For the Nth, and whilst biased K Ale, B Sef, and, Ed Gower, could appear (4 Peterson, 5 or 6 Jones, 7 Ale, 8 Reid, I havn't paid enough attention to Dempsey). I reckon A Northham will be huge this year and your inclusion of him does shows you looked deeper than most.

 

[Dave Beat]

I'd also expect the likes of Sio, Speight and Mogg (at least 2/3 of them) to potentially be in the Wallabies so that will create a few extra spots for some Canberra players...

Slim, I was expecting you to rip in.
Your level response surprised me.
Speight yes, Sio & Mogg - possibly in the mix.
Mogg - had a great year last year and then fell away.
Sio - in 2 too 3 years I'm seeing him as a certainty, not sure about now.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Speaking to somebody at the Rebels I was told there were discussions regarding their NRC team yesterday. Word I've heard is that any Super Rugby player who is approaching double digits for games played is not required to play, and is likely to opt not to play.

I was a little sceptical for these three reasons:

1. Don't see non All Blacks and Springboks sitting out of the ITM Cup and Currie Cup.

2. Not sure how a competitive athlete with any career aspirations could be happy to sit back and let somebody stake a claim to their jersey.

3. If you were a wallaby aspirant (Barring injury you would have played every game), you would want to be still playing I imagine to stake your claim in case of injury, etc.

However that's what I've been reliably informed. Also they are preparing to be without all non-Wallaby eligible players.

Personally hearing this bothers me greatly. Between injured players accumulated over a Super Rugby season and a Wallaby Squad of 30 players, you would imagine 60+ players would not be eligible initially from a total of 175 players. When you add in 5 teams that becomes an additional 235 players that will likely be required for this, which would be more than half... and then you take out the foreign marquees and you lose some of the potentially best players from the competition, which reduces the quality and suddenly the product is inferior and you are giving the opportunity to too many players at the expense of providing stronger development for the players you actually want, and need to develop.

I sure hope this is off the mark.

 

[Dave Beat]

Speaking to somebody at the Rebels I was told there were discussions regarding their NRC team yesterday.

Word I've heard is that any Super Rugby player who is approaching double digits for games played is not required to play, and is likely to opt not to play.

Are they going to say the same to Link when it comes to Wallaby selection.

They have 34 players listed on their web site.
Lets say 23 players play every game and there are no Wallabies and there are no injuries.
Are they only fielding 11 players in the NRC?

 

[Slim 293]

Slim, I was expecting you to rip in.
Your level response surprised me.
Speight yes, Sio & Mogg - possibly in the mix.
Mogg - had a great year last year and then fell away.
Sio - in 2 too 3 years I'm seeing him as a certainty, not sure about now.

I figure Speight is a shoe in once eligible, which will be around the time of the NRC.......

Sio and Mogg were part of the RC last year but obviously their placement isn't certain.........

But then when you factor in injuries picked up during Super Rugby/club rugby there's going to be plenty of opportunities for fringe players......

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave, I was trying to get my head around what he told me. Sounds like this comp is going to go together the most fucked way possible. Shit standard. The teams struggling to attract viewers and supporters will struggle the most, teams like Randwick having their arrogant views that they can put together a superior 3T team despite only managing an inferior SS team, pushes to have quasi-country teams because apparently city folk can't be sold a few imported players badged as their local region but people in the country will be dumb enough to gush over it and god knows what else. Fuck me I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Jagman]

@Jagman - well done putting that together.

I have often wondered how it would look after the selection table, and whilst there could be all sorts of variations you did a great job picking and leaving numbers and a good team in WA & VIC.

For the Nth, and whilst biased K Ale, B Sef, and, Ed Gower, could appear (4 Peterson, 5 or 6 Jones, 7 Ale, 8 Reid, I havn't paid enough attention to Dempsey). I reckon A Northham will be huge this year and your inclusion of him does shows you looked deeper than most.

Thanks Dave

I included Dempsey to get a Gordon player in but I couldn't find room for a Penrith player unfortunately.

Speight is only elligible a few weeks after the tournament starts and I'd imagine he'd only knock out Tomane anyway whom I haven't included.

 

[p.Tah]

Sounds like this comp is going to go together the most fucked way possible. Shit standard.

TWAS there has been a change in the tone of your postings lately. Has Inside Shoulder hacked your account?

 

[Dave Beat]

TWAS there has been a change in the tone of your postings lately. Has Inside Shoulder hacked your account?

Think it might be that he's passionate about the game, and not selfish about a club.
Bill explained our position yesterday, and i don't think their is much play room for another error like the ARC.

 

[MACCA]

That is my whole argument.

It will naturally happen, how can it not and how can it be prevented.
They can say all they like - the people posting here are all quite adament that it is a Randwick team standing alone, playing in green because of the rich history - a brand?

Which is why - for example - the old days use to have Nth Hbr & Sth Hbr rep teams and it was an achievement to make them.

Dear DB - last I hard Randwick was JV with UNSW & Easts however they were leading it.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dear DB - last I hard Randwick was JV with UNSW & Easts however they were leading it.

Macca, please no dears, looking forward to hearing more from the ARU.

 

[MACCA]

Macca it's a valid point. They have been linked for 2 years allegedly and there's been no evidence that UNSW have been able to assist in providing a professional sport/high performance program which would be adequate.

I'd say the fact that they have been aligned for 2 years so far with nothing seemingly to show for it is a huge negative.

The fact of the matter is Randwick are essentially trying to say they've progressed to the level of Syndey Uni's program, to a level greater than any other club can manage on their own, despite the fact that there has been nothing to suggest so. In fact based on their progression in the Shute Shield recently, you would suggest otherwise. The fact is that barring Sydney Uni, all JV syndicates will get significantly stronger due to pooling of resources.

Randwick are in a JV with a party they are already linked with for minimal results. Not sure why we should be expecting any improvement in their program or financial position.

One can't deny the past performance of the SS team I will grant you that. I don't know that Randwick think they are at the high standard set by Uni however they are heading in that direction.
You can't fatten a pig on market day , I think the Wicks have been building things up over the last few years. The relationship with UNSW has developed from the Singpore sponsorship (BTW - they finished 4th in that) to something much stronger.
Their colts have been big improvers as have many aspects of the club. They have a very young side and need to strengthen key positions.
If you look back, you will see where they have been not where they are going.
I am presuming that, if they get picked to play 3T, they will get some players from Easts as well as the Waratahs and will be much stronger than the SS team.

 

[Dave Beat]

One can't deny the past performance of the SS team I will grant you that. I don't know that Randwick think they are at the high standard set by Uni however they are heading in that direction.
You can't fatten a pig on market day , I think the Wicks have been building things up over the last few years. The relationship with UNSW has developed from the Singpore sponsorship (BTW - they finished 4th in that) to something much stronger.
Their colts have been big improvers as have many aspects of the club. They have a very young side and need to strengthen key positions.
If you look back, you will see where they have been not where they are going.
I am presuming that, if they get picked to play 3T, they will get some players from Easts as well as the Waratahs and will be much stronger than the SS team.

Macca I think the last time Uni colts played Randwick colts there was about 100 points separating the 2 teams????

That's a rather big ouch and a possible reason I'm hoping they are in joint discussions with the Beasts.

From the Tahs there is Beale and Kepu both of whom I think will be in the Wobs tent, so must be influence that is going to have Tahs players go there?

 

[Intruder]

Here's a list of hypothetical team sheets without moving anyone arbitrarily. Left out the two Qld teams as they will probably just be the reds squad split in half. Hence no Qlders have been moved back to Brisbane and only Sydney orienting players have been moved back to their club or origin but not all. It’s just interesting to see the "would be" quality difference between NSW teams and the satellite Super Rugby teams without much intervention from above. I left out about 26 Likely Wallabies, not all Wallabies squad members (where are they going to get match fitness from if they don't play?).

North Harbour
C Ah-Nau, R Dalziel, S Manu, C Thompson, G Peterson, J Dempsey, J Reid, L Jones, M Lucas, S Treeweek, P McCabe, C Tuatarra-Morrison, M Hingano, A Northham, C Crawford.

Balmain/Syd Uni
J Tilse, T Latu, L Weeks, L Winton, W Skellton, D Dennis, P McCutcheon, B McCalman, N Phipps, B Foley, G Jeloudev, J Dargaville, M Hodge, P Betham, T Kingston.

Melbourne
T Smith, P Leafa, M Lahiff, H Pyle, C Neville, C Fainga'a, S Fuglistaller, L Timani, N Stirzaker, B Hegarty, T English, L Mitchell, M Inman, T Veainu, J Woodward.
Res Super Rugby players: Alo-Emile, Aholelei, Rokobaro, Meehen, Jeffries, McMahon, L Burgess

Greater Sydney Rams
T Faulkner, H Roach, A Ala'alatoa, A Coleman, S Cummins, L McCaffrey, C Alcock, J Holloway, J Stannard, J Debreczini, U O'Sullivan, M McDougal, R Horne, A Alofa, B Volavola.

Canberra
S Sio, S Siliva, R Smith, J Whetton, S Carter, J Smiler, J Butler, F Auelua, C Hoffman, L Cronje, C Rathbone, R Coleman, A Smith, H Speight, J Mogg.
Reserve Super Rugby Players: JP Smith, Van der Walt, Dowset, Power

Perth
P Cowen, H Tessman, K Longbottom, W Steenkamp, S Wykes, H McMeniman, M Hodgson, Standar, I Prior, Z Holmes, L Brache, K Godwin, S Rololea, D Haylette-Petty, L Morohan.
Res Super Rugby Players: Heiberg, Abel, Ebersohn, Cottrell, Burton, Lowrens,

NSW Country
T Metcher, J Mann-Rea, P Ryan, R Walton, P Battye, R Stanford, T Dyer, AJ Gilbert, A Faleali'i, A Roberts, A Gibbon, T Carter, P Delit, J Pinchen, N Trist.

Sydney East/UNSW

F Asa, N Halangahu, J Falefa, P Mathers, M Chapman, L Lam, S Hoiles, T Gray, B McKibbon, D Horwitz, E Ford, B Meakes, M Carraro, E Stubbs, A Lavin.

Firstly great effort putting this together.

At the moment in regards to the NSW Country team it's hard for the ARU to allow country juniors e.g Gilbert, Tilse, Ryan etc to return to the bush because most if not all players who've made the step into professional rugby have come through Shute Shield clubs.
The examples above show us country juniors who have developed in the Shute Shield for over a number of years before gaining some sort of recognition at the higher level. It's very difficult for the ARU to then allow players to leave their Shute Shield clubs for an independent JV like NSW Country.