2011 Spring Tour

[Bowside]

I dont buy into this idea that JOC (James O'Connor) would weaken our midfield defence. He often stands bigger guys up in the tackle with his good technique.

Tapaui is an exciting prospect at 12, but he's is not a 13. If he can't make it at 13 at super rugby surrounded by champion players than what makes you think he will be any better at test level. IF he has a good super rugby season next year than I would consider him for a bench spot during the test season and if he impresses then retain him for the next end of season tour. The only reason I would take him on this tour is if there are so many injuries that their are no other options. But at this stage JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for me, with horne on the bench covering both. If they need a 4th centre than taps comes into the frame.

I'd like to see this backline:

9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Ioane
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Turner
15. Beale

20. Phipps
21. Horne
22. Morahan

or something like that

 

[Richo]

All credit to McCabe's defense, but we saw on Friday just how different a team this is with Barnes outside Cooper.

With QC (Quade Cooper) out, I like 10. Barnes 12. JOC (James O'Connor) 13. Horne.

 

[Richo]

I should add that I'm assuming Kurtley gets the tour off. Why bother risking that hammy?

 

[No4918]

McCabe didn't play against Wales guys
That we managed to shut Roberts down better than any other side without him is evidence enough for me that 2 defensive centres is a much greater hindrance than any benefit it provides. A benefit i'm not convinced is there at all with Barnes partnering AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne.

I'd love to see Barnes with JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne in the centres. It also creates an opportunity to give someone like Morahan or Davies a go on the wing and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15. Fainga'a hasn't been good enough, 3 players in the backline that wont pass when we are supposed to have the best running backline around:nta: That Davies was dropped so quickly after the Somoan game when most of the team had shockers seemed like a kneejerk reaction.

Robinson would also be great to see in the squad. Just so i dont get accused of Reds bias I'd be inclined to hold off on Taps and Gill til we see how they go next season.

 

[Richo]

My only quibble is that I'd like to see Taps get a go. Even just against the BaaBaas. Be great to give him a taste and get him hungry for more.

 

[I like to watch]

All credit to McCabe's defense, but we saw on Friday just how different a team this is with Barnes outside Cooper.

I thought it was more to do with the time QC (Quade Cooper) had. Look at how many steps he made before dishing it and compare how much time he had in the previous couple of games.The try BB scored is a good example, QC (Quade Cooper) runs to the line has a jink & holds up the pass, had he tried that last week they would still be digging bits of him out of the turf.

 

[Richo]

Not really talking about the try, actually. In general, our attack looked far more dynamic and we moved the ball far more effectively. Cooper was much more willing to put the ball through the hands and this worked better too.

 

[Lee Grant]

At 6 foot 4, 105 kilos, Read is no pony in the pack,

By big bopper I meant 120kgs, or close to it. I thought I had written that but it must have been in another post before the game.

My point was that sometimes we carry on about a guys weight or height as though they are sacraments. Read at 105 kgs and Faletau, just a bit more, play above their weight. In my parlance they play a heavy game, whereas some bigger fellows play a light game.

Vaea is the same yet folks some time in the next Super season will look him up and say he is too light.

Likewise some will look at a lock who is 195cms and turn their noses up at him compared to a long necked 200cm guy who might even have short arms. It's their reach that is important and also how spring heeled they are to get up high early so the lifters have it easier. Fair enough, we don't have that info, but it suffices to say that physical dimensions are not always as important as they seem.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

i am pretty unimpressed with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s lack of passing. means you can't really have him at outside center or fullback else you have the same problem we had in a few of our big matches of 2 of our best attackers on the wing not getting much ball.

 

[Jnor]

Lee it's the same with anything you can compare on the back of a few figures. There's obviously so much more to it but to the casual observer it's simple (and not always entirely inaccurate) to look at height and weight, for example.

To compare with another thing I love, motorcycling, it's not the power, torque and weight that matter so much but the configuration of the motor, how it delivers the power and whether it can get to the ground effectively (all things I think have pretty strong correlations to how some players operate.

 

[Lee Grant]

I dont buy into this idea that JOC (James O'Connor) would weaken our midfield defence. He often stands bigger guys up in the tackle with his good technique.

Me either. At least try him there for crying out loud and take advantage of the absence of others. I'd also have him doing the right foot kicking from the ruck with Barnes, though a RF kicker is very decent with his left, doing the kicking from the other side.

 

[Gnostic]

McCabe didn't play against Wales guys
That we managed to shut Roberts down better than any other side without him is evidence enough for me that 2 defensive centres is a much greater hindrance than any benefit it provides. A benefit i'm not convinced is there at all with Barnes partnering AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Horne.

I'd love to see Barnes with JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne in the centres. It also creates an opportunity to give someone like Morahan or Davies a go on the wing and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15. Fainga'a hasn't been good enough, 3 players in the backline that wont pass when we are supposed to have the best running backline around:nta: That Davies was dropped so quickly after the Somoan game when most of the team had shockers seemed like a kneejerk reaction.

Robinson would also be great to see in the squad. Just so i dont get accused of Reds bias I'd be inclined to hold off on Taps and Gill til we see how they go next season.

I would be happy if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets left at home. He has been consistent and that is about it. If he cannot run both sides of the field and can only carry effectively in his left hand he is not suitable for 13. Add to that I just don't believe on actual performances his work on the highball, positioning and kicking from hand is good enough to play 15.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If Deans is ever going to use JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, this is his chance to do so - at least against the Baas in the 1st game. In the test match there will be a problem defending directly against Roberts, that McCabe dealt with when needed on Friday, but most often it is not mano a mano.

There could be a case for using him on defence at fullback to ease him into the 12 spot. Whatever, the Wobs backline has to evolve and injuries to others should be opportunities..

If a guy is good enough to play the position he won't need easing into it.
JOC (James O'Connor) is too small to play 12 regularly against Nonu (for example) so he is not an option there.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is out of form and too much is being expected of him, he has produced in the past and that cannot be said of the contenders for 13.


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[Hardtackle]

Hardtackle,

Gnostic wrote that before we realised that only 26 will tour.

I don't think they will take Palmer instead of Ma'afu who played and scrummaged well in the 3rd/4th game and directly against 1. Jenkins who is no mug (as 3. James was as a THP - he is the Ospreys LHP). I was also impressed by his diligence around the rucks, something not listed on his CV.

But If Kepu cannot tour then a 4th prop will have to go.

General Lee, I confess to being lazy and only focussing on Gnostics jab at the coaches and his first fifteen.

To elaborate a little more, I think the coaches will all still be in place for the next tour. I'm hoping for new head coach gets to assemble his (or her ) own team for next year. I've completely lost faith in the faux messiah.

Re the team, injuries to Cooper, McCabe, Mitchell, Beale enforce changes which IMO will be a good thing for development. I am a fan of JOC (James O'Connor) (on the field only- he needs a shaved head and a broken nose). He is the most Horan like player we've had since Helmet ran around. He has it all and could well make a fine ten. I thought he played best at 10 for the Force this year in the first half dozen games when Ripia? was injured. He definately went off the boil when he got moved wider when Ripia came back in. Anyway I can't see Deans playing him at 10, so Barnes will get another crack there. Barnes is a classic 10 who kicks well (albeit as first choice a bit too often) and feeds the back line when the opportunities arise. The 10's who force things to happen cost points in the tough tests. I like it that Barnes doesn't feel the need to pass like he's in a school yard game of touch when he gets under pressure.

Morahan is a big skillful dude who looks a well balanced runner. He reminds me of Brendan Moon. He could end up a test 13 for a long time so give him a go on the wing to get a feel for it whilst the stakes are low. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played some of his best tests at fullback. He needs space and time.

I agree with your comments on Ma'afu's game on Friday. He and Slipper were both strong in the scrums and rucks, what's more they didn't chip kick it. To me TPN had his best game on Friday. Prior to then, he looked unwell (and out of form). Maybe he finally got lucky? Higgers needs the same opportunity of a decent run in his best position which is clearly blindside breakaway. Higgers could well end up being an 8 but right now he doesn't have the experience there to do a good enough job in tests. I'd probably switch Dennis to the bench instead if Phipps and leave Lucas to cover for Sanchez. Samo goes well for 50 or 60 so we need a back up 6/8 man.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

JOC (James O'Connor) would be just more of the same at 10.
I don't get this obsession with playing your most elusive and gifted runners @ 5/8: you need a bloke at 5/8 who can set your runners free.
If no one in oz fits that bill at the moment then dont weaken other positions and the structure of the team by moving blokes to play there just because there prodigious talents mean they won't be emabarressed.
JOC (James O'Connor) has incredible athletic ability but I can't see too many similarities to Horan. He's a winger or a fullback, IMHO.


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[Hardtackle]

.................
JOC (James O'Connor) is too small to play 12 regularly against Nonu (for example) so he is not an option there.
.................

He plays well above his weight both in attack and defence. He put some big suckers on their arses on Friday from memory. /QUOTE]

 

[Gnostic]

By big bopper I meant 120kgs, or close to it. I thought I had written that but it must have been in another post before the game.

My point was that sometimes we carry on about a guys weight or height as though they are sacraments. Read at 105 kgs and Faletau, just a bit more, play above their weight. In my parlance they play a heavy game, whereas some bigger fellows play a light game.

Vaea is the same yet folks some time in the next Super season will look him up and say he is too light.

Likewise some will look at a lock who is 195cms and turn their noses up at him compared to a long necked 200cm guy who might even have short arms. It's their reach that is important and also how spring heeled they are to get up high early so the lifters have it easier. Fair enough, we don't have that info, but it suffices to say that physical dimensions are not always as important as they seem.

Exactly. It has always been my point when people go on about having big (in size centres). Horan, Bunce and Lima weren't that big but I challenge anybody to say they didn't play big. Likewise height in the second row, there have been plenty of poor 200+cm locks but have a look at how good the French second row is now and traditionally and they rarely field a 200cm lock.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

.................
JOC (James O'Connor) is too small to play 12 regularly against Nonu (for example) so he is not an option there.
.................

He plays well above his weight both in attack and defence. He put some big suckers on their arses on Friday from memory.

Problem: Nonu plays above his weight too!


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[Bowside]

I also don't think we should rule McCabe out just yet for future wallaby honours. I dont see him as first choice in any position in the backline but with a couple more years of experience he will make a very handy sub as he can play most positions. His game needs work but he seems like the type of bloke who is willing to improve on his faults. Showed a lot of guts playing with a bung shoulder like he did.

I dont like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 15, not even a little bit. I'd play him at centre so he can build a combo with JOC (James O'Connor) and by the time the lions tour comes around I think him and horne will be battling for the starting spot. In terms of building for the future, I can understand phasing out guys like sharpe but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 27 has a few more years left in him, no need to throw him out just yet.

What players at this stage are unlikely to tour?
Cooper, Robinson, TPN?, Kepu, Vickerman, Sharpe, Elsom?, McCabe, Mitchell?, Beale?

No need to risk blokes who have a long future in gold, but guys like sharpe might be worth the risk depending on the severity of his MCL strain. If he is out I would take wykes as the third lock. He has impressed me this year and in my opinion genuinely earnt a spot. I would also take Beau and have a go at playing dual flankers. I think if a game turns into a but of a shitfight arm wrestle (like the ireland game did) than beau is the guy you want on the field. Dave Dennis also an option.

 

[Hardtackle]

JOC (James O'Connor) would be just more of the same at 10.
I don't get this obsession with playing your most elusive and gifted runners @ 5/8: you need a bloke at 5/8 who can set your runners free.
If no one in oz fits that bill at the moment then dont weaken other positions and the structure of the team by moving blokes to play there just because there prodigious talents mean they won't be emabarressed.
JOC (James O'Connor) has incredible athletic ability but I can't see too many similarities to Horan. He's a winger or a fullback, IMHO.

REPLY He's actually about the same size as Horan, he has great acceleration, he passes well, is rarely out of position, backs up well, busts tackles, he runs into holes and has great hands Which bits of Horan don't you see in JOC (James O'Connor)?

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