2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Rebel man]

What did everyone think about the deliberate knock on by the England 9 just before half time. I watched the game we had the overlap out wide Tuipulotu tried to draw the defensive player and release Tupou and the England 9 slapped the ball down in the tackle and the ref ruled it just a knock on as the 9 was going for the intercept

 

[Brumby Runner]

also goes back to an issue TOCC has raised for a while. Stewart has played bugger all football of late. Game management comes from playing games. He would have perhaps been better served playing club rugby rather than sitting on the bench for the Reds.

Mostly agree Reg, but it appeared to me that Stewart was in position a couple of times to take the drop goal in those last few minutes but Nucifora went wide. And I don't think that was due to exhaustion on Nucifora's part as he'd only been on a handfull of minutes.

I thought it was by far the best game I've seen Stewart play, and he had the knack of picking out runners from options presented to him. Both Tuipolotu and Perese had very strong games and outclassed the English centre pairing, benefiting from the service provided by Stewart.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Off topic, but further to the discussion on lifting tackles, did anyone see Beauden Barrett's tackle (maybe on Leinert-Brown?) which started as a ball and all front on tackle, but Barrett fell backwards and took the ball runner over him and to ground towards the try line (though about 30 - 40m out). In the process the ball runner's legs were clearly higher than the rest of his body, therefore above the horizontal and probably satisfying the definition of a dangerous tackle. No action taken by the officials, though.

Back to the U20s, I am hopeful that the much improved performance by our team, better than the previous two games and better than we've seen at this level in recent years past, is attributable to the coaching team and especially to Simon Cron. Very promising for Aus rugby if so.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

also goes back to an issue TOCC has raised for a while. Stewart has played bugger all football of late. Game management comes from playing games. He would have perhaps been better served playing club rugby rather than sitting on the bench for the Reds.

Apparently its irrelevant once you get to this level

 

[sidelineview]

After watching the game again it's obvious the replacement 9 who came on with 20 minutes to go had an unhappy game, but he was thrown into a high pressure situation with England leading by 1 point.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing but while Goddard looked in control for all the time he was on, Nucifora obviously felt the nerves. I'm not sure if Goddard was injured or not.

On the last play, the Aussies did a great job getting into the right field position for Stewart to take a shot at a field goal but inexplicably it looked like Nucifora ignored him. Nucifora even ran himself one time when it looked like Stewart was in the prefect position.

And then Stewart called it wide ..... and the rest is history.

Pressure and nerves or lack of game time together, or both?

The point of the exercise isnt to be critical, thats too easy, but as TOCC pointed out, England's preparation was far superior.

So the overall effort of the young Aussies vs England was tremendous with all things considered but the fact remains the preparation can improve with a view of moving forward.

 

[TOCC]

So is Charles Darwin's theory.

Ben's idea is very simple. Have players with experience playing together when you select them to run out in competition. The more cohesion they have, the better.

He has compiled evidence for it, but most know this intuitively anyway.

This is not rocket surgery and can be applied, within reason, to improve our teams. It should be used.

Brumbies-Wallabies 1999-2003 era is his evidence, and there's just as much to suggest it's as a result of once in a generation group of players and good coaching. Wallabies have tried similar combinations in recent years with TPN-Kepu-Pali-Phipps-Foley-Folau providing the backbone of the Wallabies for a a long time, or in 2011 the spine of the Reds was transplanted to the Wallabies.

England currently have a smattering of players from more clubs then the Wallabies and New Zealand select from the same size player pool as Australia. Argentina effectively has the same in the Jaguares as they do the Pumas, but still struggle to beat the top tier nations.

Ben Darwins theory has merit, by there are plenty of variables which suggest it's far from a proven concept, good coaching and player depth been the two key factors.

TLDR, U20s should be playing more rugby and less time in camps

 

[kiap]

Brumbies-Wallabies 1999-2003 era is his evidence,

<snip>

TLDR

LOL

U20s should be playing more rugby and less time in camps

This is true.

 

[Forcefield]

I'm with TOCC. Time on the pitch is king, combinations is a cherry on the top.

 

[kiap]

I'm with TOCC. Time on the pitch is king, combinations is a cherry on the top.

Why not have both?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why not have both?

Because most of them are not paid and are either at uni or working.

 

[kiap]

Because most of them are not paid and are either at uni or working.

You misunderstand.

Where are you advocating they play their rugby?

 

[Breaks_Away]

Mostly agree Reg, but it appeared to me that Stewart was in position a couple of times to take the drop goal in those last few minutes but Nucifora went wide. And I don't think that was due to exhaustion on Nucifora's part as he'd only been on a handfull of minutes.

I thought it was by far the best game I've seen Stewart play, and he had the knack of picking out runners from options presented to him. Both Tuipolotu and Perese had very strong games and outclassed the English centre pairing, benefiting from the service provided by Stewart.

Yes, Stewart was in position more than a few times but after reviewing the footage, it was quite clear he did not call for the ball which narrowed down Nucifora's options
IMO I felt Stewart was lacking the confidence to go for the drop goal, however I'm sure in time he won't hesitate if he finds himself in that position again in the future!


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[Inside Shoulder]

You misunderstand.

Where are you advocating they play their rugby?

I advocate they play rugby wherever there is rugby available for them to play. I have suggested that more Super 20s games, home and away for instance, would be a good idea but, since the existing Super 20s was apparently under review for axing, that seems an unlikely outcome.
You want them to play and go to camps - that will require more time from mostly amateur players.

 

[The sage]

I advocate they play rugby wherever there is rugby available for them to play. I have suggested that more Super 20s games, home and away for instance, would be a good idea but, since the existing Super 20s was apparently under review for axing, that seems an unlikely outcome.
You want them to play and go to camps - that will require more time from mostly amateur players.

If the aru axe s20 we mose as well play 5 kick. The irb aren't looking to axe u20 wc's so why should we.


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[Forcefield]

Why not have both?

That would be the aim, but if you can't have both you know which is more important.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If the aru axe s20 we mose as well play 5 kick. The irb aren't looking to axe u20 wc's so why should we.


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I understand it's off the table.

 

[TOCC]

If the aru axe s20 we mose as well play 5 kick. The irb aren't looking to axe u20 wc's so why should we.


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If the ARU axe a super rugby team then all levels of the development pathways need to be examined..

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^
Why ?

There will be still 4 teams. The cream rises to the surface.

Those that cannot make them will head overseas, gain expertise and experience (that someone else is paying for) and still be on the radar in the future for our 4 remaining Super sides and hopefully the Wallabies (if good enough)

 

[Rebel man]

^^^^^
Why ?

There will be still 4 teams. The cream rises to the surface.

Those that cannot make them will head overseas, gain expertise and experience (that someone else is paying for) and still be on the radar in the future for our 4 remaining Super sides and hopefully the Wallabies (if good enough)

What and then when they have been playing in France they are going to comeback for less money

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^
If they don't want to play for their country then they can fuck off.

Players get a shitload more overseas ONCE they have played for the Wallabies - otherwise they generally considered not good enough and are paid accordingly