3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Quick Hands]

If you're going to go to all the effort and be willing to lose buckets of money, you might as well do it properly and have 10 teams. IMO it's essential to expand in the nation's biggest market for the rugby codes which is Sydney. We need to have teams in the north east and south east as we need to support the rugby fans in the heartland. Leaving one team for the whole of western Sydney just undersells yourself. Essential to have 4 teams in Sydney - particularly if you have factored in losing money for the first 3 years. At least get something back for that money.

How many little Israel Folaus running arround in SW Sydney without a rugby presence in their area?

 

[Crashy]

The Currie Cup only has 6 or 8 teams from memory. I think 8 is more than enough.

 

[Hawko]

8 teams for me.

West Sydney Rams is a must. They could potentially play out of St Mary’s, TG Milner and Parra Stadium.
Sydney North
Sydney Fleet

We MUST get rid of the idea that TG Milner (Eastwood) is a part of western Sydney. Western Sydney starts at Parramatta and encompasses an area bound by Windsor, Blackheath and Campbelltown. Culturally, Eastwood is more closely aligned to St Ives than Blacktown. Spacially, its a half hour drive from Eastwood to Parramatta, which is where western Sydney starts. The centre of western Sydney lies somewhere between Blacktown and Penrith.

Have a look at the map. If the western Sydney team is based at Milner then you know that some elbow-patched toff, who thinks that Rugby is a private school domain and must remain so, has devised the competition.

Close to half the people who live in Sydney live west of Parramatta and they are serviced by one struggling Shute Shield team, Penrith. You'd probably say the Parramatta Two Blues are also western Sydney, but they are right on the eastern border of it. Any wonder that we constantly bemoan the lack of player depth when half of Sydney is totally left to league.

Not directing this at you specifically Crashy. The Rugby community as a whole must have failed geography at school if they think Eastwood is a part of western Sydney.

 

[Jets]

I think you need to start with 8 teams and you can look at expanding in a few years. I think Brisbane could field 3 teams but I'd prefer to have 2 teams who could make the finals that have 3 for the sake of it.

 

[TOCC]

We MUST get rid of the idea that TG Milner (Eastwood) is a part of western Sydney. Western Sydney starts at Parramatta and encompasses an area bound by Windsor, Blackheath and Campbelltown. Culturally, Eastwood is more closely aligned to St Ives than Blacktown. Spacially, its a half hour drive from Eastwood to Parramatta, which is where western Sydney starts. The centre of western Sydney lies somewhere between Blacktown and Penrith.

Have a look at the map. If the western Sydney team is based at Milner then you know that some elbow-patched toff, who thinks that Rugby is a private school domain and must remain so, has devised the competition.

Close to half the people who live in Sydney live west of Parramatta and they are serviced by one struggling Shute Shield team, Penrith. You'd probably say the Parramatta Two Blues are also western Sydney, but they are right on the eastern border of it. Any wonder that we constantly bemoan the lack of player depth when half of Sydney is totally left to league.

Not directing this at you specifically Crashy. The Rugby community as a whole must have failed geography at school if they think Eastwood is a part of western Sydney.

Agreed, i had this debate earlier in the year when a Tahs juniors event was held at TG Milner Field and apparently that was representing Western Sydney... Its not Western Sydney..

 

[TOCC]

It's not an enclosed ground though, so they'd lose a fair bit from ticketing sales.
.

then could put a rent-a-fence up, Sunnybank used to do that about 10-12 years back..

ANZ is an absolute no-go, it would be expensive to rent as they need to retrofit the field over the athletics track and would be absent of any kind of atmosphere...


I still the suburban rugby ground is the best way to go for the south side team, it will get the clubs involved and somewhat appease their frustration at been overlooked by giving them extra funding through food and beverage sales.


Host any night games at Ballymore, as pointed out by Reg they need a field with the appropriate lighting and infrastructure, Ballymore is the best option by far for this.

 

[SouthernX]

I believe there could be potentially a influx of talent into 3rd tier with this competition. I know of a couple of players playing qcup over union simply because of the match payments.

Rugby greatest rival in Australia is the other 3 codes.

 

[Quick Hands]

We MUST get rid of the idea that TG Milner (Eastwood) is a part of western Sydney. Western Sydney starts at Parramatta and encompasses an area bound by Windsor, Blackheath and Campbelltown. Culturally, Eastwood is more closely aligned to St Ives than Blacktown. Spacially, its a half hour drive from Eastwood to Parramatta, which is where western Sydney starts. The centre of western Sydney lies somewhere between Blacktown and Penrith.

Have a look at the map. If the western Sydney team is based at Milner then you know that some elbow-patched toff, who thinks that Rugby is a private school domain and must remain so, has devised the competition.

Close to half the people who live in Sydney live west of Parramatta and they are serviced by one struggling Shute Shield team, Penrith. You'd probably say the Parramatta Two Blues are also western Sydney, but they are right on the eastern border of it. Any wonder that we constantly bemoan the lack of player depth when half of Sydney is totally left to league.

Not directing this at you specifically Crashy. The Rugby community as a whole must have failed geography at school if they think Eastwood is a part of western Sydney.

I agree with you and I've long argued for a greater rugby presence in western Sydney which is why I have argued for teams in both NW and SW Sydney. I would say however, that while Eastwood itself and TG Millner Field aren't truly western Sydney, the Eastwood junior catchment extends into what could be described as western Sydney. The boundary between Parramatta and Eastwood JRUs isn't as logical as one would think. For example North Rocks JRU is affiliated with Eastwood, but Dundas Valley is affiliated with Parramatta - even though North Rocks is further west than Dundas Valley.

In short, no way would I base a team at Millner and call it western Sydney (or at Concord for that matter). Parramatta Stadium makes some sense because of its facilities. The Showground at Homebush rather than the Olympic Stadium could also be an option and I'm sure there are other grounds in that region of which I don't have specific knowledge.

For the SW Sydney team, Orana Park at Cambelltown hosts 4 NRL games a year and the locals there really resent that fact that the Tigers play most of their games a Leichhardt or the SFS. Try and get in there, get the local council onside, St Gregs are really getting into rugby. For once let's show some foresight instead of saying how hard it is in western Sydney (I'm not saying you hold these views)

If we're going to spend money on this, it has to be used to get into western Sydney. The Pulveriser is happy to lose $5 mil in the first year at least let's try to get some bang for our buck.

 

[RugbyFuture]

also don't forget western sydney on socio-economic lines is actually more of a line that cuts south east from the edge of the hills district. down in front of canterbury bankstown.

I don't think its viable to target campbelltown or something like that, it would be smarter to invest in slightly more rugby focused areas, otherwise its just not going to last past those first few years, push it east towards the southern district areas and you're there, push it down to illawarra and you may have a bigger winner. Until then have a single western sydney team battling and establish a presence.

Other than that 8 teams still makes more sense initially than 10. Do what the a-league did and establish first.

 

[wamberal]

The Sydney media thinks that everything west of the CBD is Western Sydney.

 

[wamberal]

Don't get me wrong if they Sydney Uni would make a great base for one of the ARC clubs, they have everything that an elite rugby team would need...but to give it's own sole franchise and then allow them to stay in the premier comp is a bad idea.

Disagree. Firstly, they have a crap ground, with terrible amenities - and worse, it is also crap as a television venue.

Secondly, who (apart from their alumni) would feel any connection to them? An elite competition needs to be filled with teams who might, just might, attract non-aligned supporters to watch either on tv, or, ideally, at the ground.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I meant as a training base. Playing fields will obviously be dependent on the facilities you specified

 

[Train Without a Station]

What is our fucking hard on over 10 teams all about?

The Currie Cup Premier Division has 6 teams, the ITM Cup Premiership has 7 teams, yet we seem to think our equivalent should have 10 teams when we need to allow additional import concessions for 2 of our Super Rugby teams?

8 teams is pushing it. 6 would be ideal for the best concentration of talent.

Fuck pushing into new areas, fuck talking about providing more spots to compete with NRL and AFL for talent. Get a quality comp up and running that provides a platform for the next tier of players who aren't Super Rugby contracted to compete at a higher level than club rugby. We're looking for the best club players, not providing so many roster spots that a lot of average club players are picked up.

 

[Buster]

Simple solution. Revert to the three teams we had running:

- all three had great home grounds with broadcast facilities and great grounds for watching sport, rugby in particular (north sydney oval, parramatta oval and bluetounge)

- the three trams reasonably covered the sydney region, or at least was played at grounds that spread the love (with the exception of Southern sydney)

- the three teams were totally unassociated with other premier sides, which kept the individuality and the identity making process more reasonable, although the coaching players flocked from a few clubs in that general area, that could look to be more corrected through more independent coaches, or putting someone like Damien hill with the uni influence up at the rays.

- the teams could train using school facilities or other ground facilities in the areas, there are heaps so this shouldn't be an issue. The academy of sport, the grounds themselves, other community grounds used by us mere mortals on weeknights and weekends would also suffice

The old comp was brilliant, except it was poorly managed in its start up phase. If pulver can tighten the strings, get some broadcast love to soften the financial burden, this thing could be a belter, and even better the $70 I forked out on ky ray's jersey back hen may not have been for nothing!

-

 

[Quick Hands]

also don't forget western sydney on socio-economic lines is actually more of a line that cuts south east from the edge of the hills district. down in front of canterbury bankstown.

I don't think its viable to target campbelltown or something like that, it would be smarter to invest in slightly more rugby focused areas, otherwise its just not going to last past those first few years, push it east towards the southern district areas and you're there, push it down to illawarra and you may have a bigger winner. Until then have a single western sydney team battling and establish a presence.

Other than that 8 teams still makes more sense initially than 10. Do what the a-league did and establish first.

Pulver doesn't want to be viable - he's willing to lose $5 mil in the first year with decreasing losses for the next 4. The guy seems to actually have vision.

 

[Quick Hands]

What is our fucking hard on over 10 teams all about?

The Currie Cup Premier Division has 6 teams, the ITM Cup Premiership has 7 teams, yet we seem to think our equivalent should have 10 teams when we need to allow additional import concessions for 2 of our Super Rugby teams?

8 teams is pushing it. 6 would be ideal for the best concentration of talent.

Fuck pushing into new areas, fuck talking about providing more spots to compete with NRL and AFL for talent. Get a quality comp up and running that provides a platform for the next tier of players who aren't Super Rugby contracted to compete at a higher level than club rugby. We're looking for the best club players, not providing so many roster spots that a lot of average club players are picked up.

Some people see what is and say why, others see what isn't and say why not?

With the greatest respect, the type of thinking you advocate has seen rugby confined to Sydney boundaries circa 1900.

 

[tigerland12]

What is our fucking hard on over 10 teams all about?

The Currie Cup Premier Division has 6 teams, the ITM Cup Premiership has 7 teams, yet we seem to think our equivalent should have 10 teams when we need to allow additional import concessions for 2 of our Super Rugby teams?

8 teams is pushing it. 6 would be ideal for the best concentration of talent.

Fuck pushing into new areas, fuck talking about providing more spots to compete with NRL and AFL for talent. Get a quality comp up and running that provides a platform for the next tier of players who aren't Super Rugby contracted to compete at a higher level than club rugby. We're looking for the best club players, not providing so many roster spots that a lot of average club players are picked up.

Agree completely. I do understand 8 teams because part of developing the sport is to build Melbourne and Perth exposure and support, but 10 teams makes no sense.

The only reason I could think of would be if FoxSports has said "we need 5 games a week for this deal to be viable."

 

[Train Without a Station]

the type of thinking you advocate has seen rugby confined to Sydney boundaries circa 1900.

Developing a suitable comp and then expand as it can support it? I'd say it's the lack of developing a comp like this has?

What's wrong with one team in Perth, Melbourne, Canberra and Bris then 2 in Sydney to begin with? Much like the A League have the view to expand when it is viable both from the commercial perspective and the talent end.

 

[tigerland12]

I don't get the perception that Sydney is deserving of more teams than Brisbane. Last time I checked the Premier Comp was a lot more competitive than the Sydney Uni dominated Shute Shield.

Just saying, it's a perception that's always bugged me......carry on.

 

[Quick Hands]

Developing a suitable comp and then expand as it can support it? I'd say it's the lack of developing a comp like this has?

What's wrong with one team in Perth, Melbourne, Canberra and Bris then 2 in Sydney to begin with? Much like the A League have the view to expand when it is viable both from the commercial perspective and the talent end.

From a commercial perspective, your biggest market by a long way is Sydney, it's where the money is for rugby. Brisbane the next biggest market. More exposure in those markets increases your ability to attract sponsors/advertisers. One of the ways that clubs make money is through selling merchandise to fans. Two teams in Sydney simply isn't enough. If you're going to spend big dollars either do it properly or not at all.

Lots of people in Melbourne said things similar to your thoughts about the Sydney Swans in the early 80s, League people said the same about Melbourne Storm, AFL people said you couldn't run 2 teams in Adelaide or Perth, people said you could never run a soccer league in Australia. All success stories - some weren't successful immediately, but people of vision saw the big picture and thought that the risk was worth it.

To me, this is rugby's big chance to break out of it's elitist north shore, eastern suburbs, inner city mentality. The bizarre that a few GPS and CAS schools can power Australian rugby, while being content with the fact that at least half the young boys in Sydney don't have a local junior club to play for.

You're entitled to your view and plenty agree with you. I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.