ARU fee structure change for 2015

[Keiran]

That's interesting. Was there a negative reaction in registrations or such?


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Certainly was some negative reactions, but that wasn't enough to get the clubs and schools to react. Certainly last year for our club player costs (cost to put a kid on the field) went up 38% and this year it will be even higher. It's hard for families to understand why we have almost doubled our registration costs in 2 years.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Isn't that what happened in NSW? The Waratahs licence being operated independently?

Like everything, it's not really quite that simple. There is still a strong affiliation between NSWRU and the Waratahs. How that pans out over the coming months/years, we'll see.

The pathway needs to exist and be very visible to aspiring players for that sort of arrangement to work. Would you trust the ARU in its present form to manage that?

 

[Keiran]

It may surprise you hear this, but there are a lot of people who don't go to movies or go out drinking because they can't afford it.

There are also people who can afford it, but not all at once.

There are also adults who may be able to afford it, but keep their kids out because it's perceived as too expensive.

It's not about whether people can afford it, anyway. It's about whether people will pay it. If people decide to pull themselves out (or worse - their kids) based on this, the ARU will not suffer. They will turn a profit from this. The clubs, however, will bear the brunt of the decreased subscriptions.

Economics is not all about affordability.

I agree totally except without grass roots participation super rugby and test crowd figures will continue to fall and therefore impact the ARU.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree totally except without grass roots participation super rugby and test crowd figures will continue to fall and therefore impact the ARU.

I wonder how much this is actually true in terms of Super Rugby crowd figures.

I'd be guessing that whilst there will be plenty of people at the rugby who attended their kids footy game that weekend (or are the kids who played), there wouldn't be a huge number who went down to watch Shute Shield in the afternoon or played club rugby that day and then came to the Tahs in the evening. I'd guess those things take away from Super Rugby crowds rather than add to them.

The ARU would have a much better idea regarding the correlation between participation numbers and ticket sales due to things like MyRugbyID.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I agree totally except without grass roots participation super rugby and test crowd figures will continue to fall and therefore impact the ARU.

You are likely correct. I'd say the same. I don't think there is any way to measure the actual effect, though, as numbers are falling, anyway.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Like everything, it's not really quite that simple. There is still a strong affiliation between NSWRU and the Waratahs. How that pans out over the coming months/years, we'll see.

The pathway needs to exist and be very visible to aspiring players for that sort of arrangement to work. Would you trust the ARU in its present form to manage that?

I'm not sure, the pathways now are pretty discouraging. As far as I can tell, every member of the Queensland Reds squad went to a private school (apart from Brisbane State Boys High, a selective state school in the GPS system). Clubs don't provide a pathway for juniors to significant rep footy at all.

 

[Chris McCracken]

I'm not sure, the pathways now are pretty discouraging. As far as I can tell, every member of the Queensland Reds squad went to a private school (apart from Brisbane State Boys High, a selective state school in the GPS system). Clubs don't provide a pathway for juniors to significant rep footy at all.

I think I've not made my point clear. It isn't that I think the pathways are a a wonderful yellow-brick road to superstardom.

I'm saying that, if the state unions do not have a tight relationship with the Super Rugby team, the pathway ceases to exist in its entirety.

Problems with the pathways need to be fixed. I think one big win which the ARU deserves more credit for is the JGC and NRC competitions. I think they came to the same realisations as we have and instigated these competitions to create a better combined pathway at each level.

 

[Keiran]

My biggest issue is that the clubs are left to sell unexplained fees to parents for their kids to play rugby. The ARU dumps the fee on an individual basis, but we clean up the mess and cop the flack. I am so not looking forward to our first rego day next month as has been explained here before, I'll just have to tell parents the State Fee and Participation Levy will be going to support their kids in some magical unknown (and previously largely unseen unless the child in question is a rep player) way by organisations whose financial viability is in serious question.

 

[Brendan Hume]

I think I've not made my point clear. It isn't that I think the pathways are a a wonderful yellow-brick road to superstardom.

I'm saying that, if the state unions do not have a tight relationship with the Super Rugby team, the pathway ceases to exist in its entirety.

Problems with the pathways need to be fixed. I think one big win which the ARU deserves more credit for is the JGC and NRC competitions. I think they came to the same realisations as we have and instigated these competitions to create a better combined pathway at each level.

I'm not sure the Super Rugby teams affect the pathways at all. Players on rep pathways are aspiring to that level, but that level doesn't necessarily do anything to support the pathways except providing the example for those aspiration players.

Agree the JGC is a great concept. Some aspects of the implementation are a bit shaky but overall I think it'll be of great benefit to players, coaches and officials.

It still irks me that there is such a high concentration of private school players at the elite level though - it perpetuates a stereotype, and discourages people outside that system to engage.

 

[namtrak]

............ I am so not looking forward to our first rego day next month as has been explained here before, I'll just have to tell parents the State Fee and Participation Levy will be going to support their kids in some magical unknown..........

This

 

[Brendan Hume]

My biggest issue is that the clubs are left to sell unexplained fees to parents for their kids to play rugby.

In community rugby, we have known known's, the things we know that we know. Then we have the known unknown's, the things we know we don't know. Then we have the unknown unknown's - the things we don't know we don't know.

Thankfully, we're dealing with known unknowns. The fees and charges we have for services and support we don't see. I'm planning on blaming everything on Kurtley Beale...

 

[Chris McCracken]

I'm not sure the Super Rugby teams affect the pathways at all. Players on rep pathways are aspiring to that level, but that level doesn't necessarily do anything to support the pathways except providing the example for those aspiration players.

Agree the JGC is a great concept. Some aspects of the implementation are a bit shaky but overall I think it'll be of great benefit to players, coaches and officials.

It still irks me that there is such a high concentration of private school players at the elite level though - it perpetuates a stereotype, and discourages people outside that system to engage.

The Super Rugby teams are aspirational targets for young kids. Without them, kids don't get onto that representative pathway in the first place. Every Walla kid at our club wants to be a Waratah or Wallaby (some want to play for the Bulldogs, but we're trying trying to deal with that). My own son has aspired to play for the Brumbies for years. He now works towards the next level, but the inspiration comes from what they see on TV. And let's not start a FTA TV thing.

The reason the private schools have so much representation is that they have held the development and selection power for so long. And they still do. Cultures take time to change. That's why the JGC exists. To combine the pathway. You can't very well change the goalposts on the private schools and tell them the kids can't play rep footy straight away.

It's a hearts and minds exercise. And you have to win them in the schools and the establishment as well as the clubs.

 

[Brendan Hume]

The Super Rugby teams are aspirational targets for young kids.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just not sure that Community Rugby and Professional Rugby need to be linked at a management level. Those pathways will exist whether the two coexist under the same umbrella or not. Whilst ever there is a large enough number of participants, there will be a representative pathway. Some will aspire to achieve that level whether there is TV coverage or not. I think Field Hockey is a good example.

 

[Brendan Hume]

It would be interesting to track the outcomes of the JGC longitudinally over the next five or six years. I'm assuming its sustainable at $600 or whatever the cost is, and doesn't need a kick from the ARU or states, but it would be good to see whether the participants continue to play - whether socially or at the highest level.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Notwithstanding the lack of communication from the ARU, the bulk of community rugby money at national and state level goes to paying for development officers.

So my question for you guys at the grassroots, are the development officers worth finding a way to pay for if the pros can no longer cover the costs?

 

[Chris McCracken]

So my question for you guys at the grassroots, are the development officers worth finding a way to pay for if the pros can no longer cover the costs?

Yes. No question. However, it is dependent on the DO. Ours is extremely knowledgeable, helpful and a spectacularly good organiser. That said, he is spread extremely thinly and no amount of time management can deal with the amount of work expected of him.

So, for me, the question wouldn't be are they worth keeping on, but is there a way we can get more.

 

[Brendan Hume]

For Townsville - no. Townsville employ it's own Development Officers who work hard with clubs and schools to deliver the programs we need. We could deliver other programs (rookies2reds and Ballymore Cup) like we used to, if the QRU needed these done, and would certainly prefer to do this that have a QRU DO doing only this


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[TSR]

Notwithstanding the lack of communication from the ARU, the bulk of community rugby money at national and state level goes to paying for development officers.

So my question for you guys at the grassroots, are the development officers worth finding a way to pay for if the pros can no longer cover the costs?

I can't really answer emphatically either way. I rarely see ours, but I am mainly involved in seniors and he spends most of his time on junior program's which is fair enough from my perspective. I have questioned what his KPIs are though, how these are set and how they are measured. There haven't been any clear answers on those.

I am critical that no locals have been appointed as a DO for a long time. Young, mostly inexperienced DOs are being appointed from Brisbane and one of the problems I believe they are having is that they come here without minimal experience and no immediate support close at hand.

 

[Brendan Hume]

I can't really answer emphatically either way. I rarely see ours, but I am mainly involved in seniors and he spends most of his time on junior program's which is fair enough from my perspective. I have questioned what his KPIs are though, how these are set and how they are measured. There haven't been any clear answers on those.

I am critical that no locals have been appointed as a DO for a long time. Young, mostly inexperienced DOs are being appointed from Brisbane and one of the problems I believe they are having is that they come here without minimal experience and no immediate support close at hand.

Seniors are being asked to pay the most though...

Agree entirely on the local aspect as well. Same has happened in Townsville with QRU appointed staff. Why you would place someone from Brisbane with no knowledge of the local area or contacts with schools or clubs into a regional area to develop rugby completely baffles me


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[Strewthcobber]

Young, mostly inexperienced DOs are being appointed from Brisbane and one of the problems I believe they are having is that they come here without minimal experience and no immediate support close at hand.

That's got to be a function of what they want, and what they are offering in return.

This suggests their salary is up to $44k per year. You don't get much experience for that.