ARU fee structure change for 2015

[Brendan Hume]

Wouldn't they be better off having young local people on traineeships (mid $20ks) under the guidance of the sub-Union. Someone with a knowledge of the area and a vested interest in making it better?


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[Strewthcobber]

Wouldn't they be better off having young local people on traineeships (mid $20ks) under the guidance of the sub-Union. Someone with a knowledge of the area and a vested interest in making it better?


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Wouldn't that mean even less competent candidates and more turnover?
And what are you training them for?

 

[Chris McCracken]

Wouldn't they be better off having young local people on traineeships (mid $20ks) under the guidance of the sub-Union. Someone with a knowledge of the area and a vested interest in making it better?

Local, yes.

That cheap, no. Why would you not pay the people working with your kids a liveable wage? The amount DOs are on for the amount of work they do is already pretty bad. It's got to be a career option.

Under the sub-Union? Not on your nelly. The ARU and state unions are best placed to ensure curricula and quality control. There is way too much variation in ability and politics in sub-Unions.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Wouldn't that mean even less competent candidates and more turnover?
And what are you training them for?

In Townsville our DOs get a Cert 4 in Sport & Rec I think. Takes two years and the people are both familiar with the area before they start, they have had experience playing in the competition they are servicing, and they have roots in our town so there is a familiarity with the clubs that encourages engagement in the process. That's my experience anyway.


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[Brendan Hume]

Local, yes.

That cheap, no. Why would you not pay the people working with your kids a liveable wage? The amount DOs are on for the amount of work they do is already pretty bad. It's got to be a career option.

Under the sub-Union? Not on your nelly. The ARU and state unions are best placed to ensure curricula and quality control. There is way too much variation in ability and politics in sub-Unions.

Maybe not in your sub-Union. I can only speak of my experience in Townsville but I think we have a great system.


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[Strewthcobber]

In Townsville our DOs get a Cert 4 in Sport & Rec I think. Takes two years and the people are both familiar with the area before they start, they have had experience playing in the competition they are servicing, and they have roots in our town so there is a familiarity with the clubs that encourages engagement in the process. That's my experience anyway.


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Sorry, I meant once they have completed their traineeship, is there a role for them in the district?

 

[Brendan Hume]

Sometimes, usually not. In Qld, kids finish school at 17 usually. Most of the DOs use the chance to work in rugby as gap year, that lasts two years. They do work hard, but it's not rocket science delivering rugby activities to school kids - as I've said, Townsville probably pays over the odds in having a development coordinator (who manages appointments for the DOs as well as activities like carnivals, etc) but with someone experienced doing that role we get really good value by having two DOs delivering programs directly who are enthusiastic and cheap.


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[Brendan Hume]

And we fund the program ourselves.


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[Strewthcobber]

And we fund the program ourselves.


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Obviously a successful model that works for you up there, but it begs the obvious question, how do you fund it?

 

[Brendan Hume]

We have a pretty good sponsorship set up, and we charge players a small fee each week to play. Clubs and players pay for the programs and the clubs manage it through the sub-Union who employ these people.


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[Chris McCracken]

Maybe not in your sub-Union. I can only speak of my experience in Townsville but I think we have a great system.

It is great that you are able to maintain quality in that service delivery internally. There is absolutely nothing stopping sub-unions doing precisely what you've done in Townsville. It can even be done on your model and kept in conjunction with the ARU/State DOs.

There are a number of sub-Unions with less wherewithal to perform that task. It's just not something that would be better across the board.

NSWRU is currently recruiting a small army of casual DOs to augment the work of the existing full time guys. I see that as an equivalent of your program.

 

[Brendan Hume]

Yeah perhaps. This is the sort of thing that is be happy for the ARU to be spending money on - sharing information and models around the country. I think I mentioned that in one of my first posts - the most difficult thing we face in Aus (regionally) is size and population density. Queensland Country is the size of all of the six nations teams combines in area. NSW country similarly has huge distances to traverse at time with sparse populations to sustain development staff. The post a couple of days ago about an Australian Amateur Rugby Union (or some such) may sound petulant at first glance, but it makes sense to have the business of running amateur rugby coordinated by amateur rugby with a goal of overseeing the 99.9% of people who will only ever play the game for the love of it, while still turning out the other 0.1% who will go on to the elite level, removing the burden if grassroots from the professionals and letting them manage the professional game properly. At the moment, it's like a nightmare case of the 80-20 rule where all the income comes from the professional game, so all of the focus should be on that area, not delivering IGP lessons in schools.


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[Quick Hands]

The latest information from our junior club:

ARU position and levy. The ARU has cut funding to NSWRU development by $1.1m. This was to be covered by a levy on all players – Shute shield, subbies, country and juniors. The SJRU and NSWRU have worked together to reduce the proposed levy from $25 to $10+GST, which will be incorporated into the 2015 fees above. SJRU will not pay that money to NSWRU until satisfied that the development plans are acceptable.

 

[Quick Hands]

Notwithstanding the lack of communication from the ARU, the bulk of community rugby money at national and state level goes to paying for development officers.

So my question for you guys at the grassroots, are the development officers worth finding a way to pay for if the pros can no longer cover the costs?

My experience with DOs are that they do great work, but are spread way to thinly. If you want one at training you have to ring and book and 3 weeks later they come and run a very good session, but with the number of teams in the area they cover, that's all they can offer.

We get much better value from the Marlins - all players who are being paid by the club are expected to go to a set number of junior club training sessions. We also pay a small amount to some of the ist grade colts players who come down and help a number of the teams. They're there every week pretty much and the same guys are with the same teams. The colts guys are great and they do much the same job as the DOs do, just much more often.

So from my personal experience, paying a NPL for the what the DOs are able to do is not value for money compared with what we can get from the Marlins.

This is not meant as a personal criticism of the individual DOs, it's just what happens.

 

[Brendan Hume]

The latest information from our junior club:

ARU position and levy. The ARU has cut funding to NSWRU development by $1.1m. This was to be covered by a levy on all players – Shute shield, subbies, country and juniors. The SJRU and NSWRU have worked together to reduce the proposed levy from $25 to $10+GST, which will be incorporated into the 2015 fees above. SJRU will not pay that money to NSWRU until satisfied that the development plans are acceptable.

Is that working together to bring the fee to $10+ code for we're emptying the coffers to minimise the impact this year, o have they genuinely negotiated a better outcome?

 

[Quick Hands]

Is that working together to bring the fee to $10+ code for we're emptying the coffers to minimise the impact this year, o have they genuinely negotiated a better outcome?

Who knows, but SJRU are still using Buddha, so rugbylink or whatever it was is off the table in 2015.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Is that working together to bring the fee to $10+ code for we're emptying the coffers to minimise the impact this year, o have they genuinely negotiated a better outcome?

I actually don't mind too much if it is a one year deferment. That would give us a year to communicate the change to our members and prepare for it. It would also give the ARU a year to present their justifications.

 

[Chris McCracken]

Who knows, but SJRU are still using Buddha, so rugbylink or whatever it was is off the table in 2015.

If only it meant that we could keep using MRA, as well. Unfortunately, they've already screwed that up. They also appear to have at least partially ballsed the data migration into Rugby Link.

 

[Brendan Hume]

I actually don't mind too much if it is a one year deferment. That would give us a year to communicate the change to our members and prepare for it. It would also give the ARU a year to present their justifications.

Yeah, I don't think the deferment is from the ARU though. I think the SJRU and NSWRU are paying to reduce the levy - and you don't even have a state levy to contend with! Been doing our sums and our club has a liability when each junior steps onto the field of something like $105. We will have to get thy money upfront - I don't think the club responsibly can carry any debt for its players. It's going to be a big ask for a lot of parents. Seniors is more like $200...


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[Quick Hands]

Yeah, I don't think the deferment is from the ARU though. I think the SJRU and NSWRU are paying to reduce the levy - and you don't even have a state levy to contend with! Been doing our sums and our club has a liability when each junior steps onto the field of something like $105. We will have to get thy money upfront - I don't think the club responsibly can carry any debt for its players. It's going to be a big ask for a lot of parents. Seniors is more like $200.


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As I understand it, The ARU cut $1.1 million from its development grant to NSWRU. This shortfall would have been replaced with the money raised by the NPF in NSW. NSWRU have decided to absorb most of the shortfall and there will now be a $10 fee paid to NSWRU, but this will be witheld by SJRU until they see the fineprint of what they are going to get for the money.