Bledisloe #4 New Zealand vs Australia Nov 7 2020

[brokendown]

pick the best defensive side we can for this game,then experiment against the Argies

 

[ACT Crusader]

Do we, though? My impression of the game on Saturday was that our issue wasn't physicality at all. When the play slowed down we put on plenty of hits, and our forward ball-running was solid enough.

Our issues in defence came when play broke down, so instead of physicality I'd be looking at blokes who can think in defence and make good decisions. And in reality the Hanigan-Hooper-Wilson backrow was pretty good at that, the issues came away from that.

I like Valetini, but I'm not sure he's the answer to the many questions that were posed on Saturday.

FWIW I'd be siding with stability and picking the same XV, though I'd bring in JOC (James O'Connor) (for Lolesio) and I'd think about Tate for White.

Yeah the physicality was there and even from the young fellas in set piece play. Clarke for example barely made a line break. Oz got beaten by poor realignment and errors. A couple of class moments from the ABs in there too.

The young backs were never going to shy away from the physical stuff, it was more a case of if their inexperience would get the bette of them when trying to read a move.

 

[Joe Blow]

The physicality was OK, possibly misdirected. But it was not effective and we had a lot less ball than in the previous two tests. We were unable to protect our own pill and provide almost any front foot pill. On the rare occasion that we did we made inroads.
We need more clean outs and protection of our ball on attack.
Having Simmons and Hanigan in the same starting pack leaves us a little short on coalface grunt.

 

[dru]

The physicality was OK, possibly misdirected. But it was not effective and we had a lot less ball than in the previous two tests. We were unable to protect our own pill and provide almost any front foot pill. On the rare occasion that we did we made inroads.
We need more clean outs and protection of our ball on attack.
Having Simmons and Hanigan in the same starting pack leaves us a little short on coalface grunt.

That would be the traditional criticism, but this time I thought Hanigan tolerable and Simmons the best performance in “coalface grunt” I have seen from him in a while. Doesn’t make them world beaters but I think “adequate” works.

Baba is right here for mine - thinking in D would be a great place to start. I’d be happy with a largely unchanged crew, on the assumption that they are working on it and capable of implementation on game day.

 

[Joe Blow]

Possibly, but lets not forget the performance was way below that in bled 1 or 2. This was a record defeat, so despite what most are saying more is needed than just a couple of tweaks.

 

[fatprop]

That would be the traditional criticism, but this time I thought Hanigan tolerable and Simmons the best performance in “coalface grunt” I have seen from him in a while. Doesn’t make them world beaters but I think “adequate” works.

Baba is right here for mine - thinking in D would be a great place to start. I’d be happy with a largely unchanged crew, on the assumption that they are working on it and capable of implementation on game day.

I can't remember which aus super match it was, but Simmons put in the most dominant shift by any aus lock this season

Neither will ever be world 15 standard, but they ain't crap either and the potential replacements are demonstratively no better

 

[Froggy]

The biggest tweak needed is respecting possession. Yep, there's lots more needs to be done, but the lack of respect for possession from numbers 10 to 14 was what put us into record loss territory.

 

[formerflanker]

Is Hodge's versatility a boon to him and Australia or a weight in his saddle?
He has played every position from 10 to 15 at Super Rugby/Test level.
It may have earned him more Test caps than if he specialised in one position, but I wonder if he would be a better (insert position here) if he played there consistently.
I think fullback is his best position.

 

[Dctarget]

Good article by Carrick Ryan on the Roar. Pretty much saying what we all knew: we play NZ too often.

Record against New Zealand – 2010 to 2019

Australia 30 games, 5 wins, 2 draws, 23 losses (13 in NZ, 8 at Eden Park) Av 31-19

England 9 games, 2 wins, 7 losses (only 3 games in NZ) Av 23-20

South Africa 22 games, 3 wins, one draw (only 2 games in Eden Park) Av 29-17

Ireland 10 games, 2 wins (neither in NZ),8 losses Av 35-17

Wales 10 games, 0 wins, 10 losses Av 36-15

France 12 games, 0 wins, 12 losses Av 33 - 13


We've played them at Eden Park 8 times in the past decade. Compared to SA's twice.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/04/the-statistics-that-prove-australian-rugby-is-not-dead/

 

[Joe Blow]

Is Hodge's versatility a boon to him and Australia or a weight in his saddle?
He has played every position from 10 to 15 at Super Rugby/Test level.
It may have earned him more Test caps than if he specialised in one position, but I wonder if he would be a better (insert position here) if he played there consistently.
I think fullback is his best position.

I wish he would stay at 15. IMO he played better there than DHP at the Rebs this year.

 

[Up the Guts]

The biggest tweak needed is respecting possession. Yep, there's lots more needs to be done, but the lack of respect for possession from numbers 10 to 14 was what put us into record loss territory.

I think our support players need to be a lot narrower when we make breaks or half breaks, focusing more on putting themselves in a position to make the clean out at the next breakdown rather than trying to position themselves for a pass or offload. That will help stop the man who has made the break being isolated at the breakdown and will mean he’s not getting calls to throw 50/50 balls. The perfect example of this was at Eden Park where Ned trailed directly behind Hooper to make the clean out rather than trying to move wider for a pass in space.

 

[formerflanker]

I think our support players need to be a lot narrower when we make breaks or half breaks, focusing more on putting themselves in a position to make the clean out at the next breakdown rather than trying to position themselves for a pass or offload. That will help stop the man who has made the break being isolated at the breakdown and will mean he’s not getting calls to throw 50/50 balls. The perfect example of this was at Eden Park where Ned trailed directly behind Hooper to make the clean out rather than trying to move wider for a pass in space.

My memory is a bit hazy, but I think that was an innovation Rod McQueen introduced. Depth in support.
Seemed to work for him and his teams. Give it another go boys!

 

[dru]

I wish he would stay at 15. IMO he played better there than DHP at the Rebs this year.

I’m completely with this and really like Hodge at 15. Still while I rate DHP much more poorly than many here, even I can see he was not an important cog of the dreadful performance in Bled #3 and I would understand persisting.

This will be considered heresy but if JOC (James O'Connor) remains unavailable I would start Hodge at 10 and bring on 22 with 20 to go. Happy for 22 to be Lolesio or to give Harrison some time. If JOC (James O'Connor) starts Hodge to 23 for direct comparison with DHP for fullback.

 

[RugbyReg]

I can't remember which aus super match it was, but Simmons put in the most dominant shift by any aus lock this season

please work out which game that was because I am FASCINATED about such a concept.

 

[Rob42]

The biggest tweak needed is respecting possession. Yep, there's lots more needs to be done, but the lack of respect for possession from numbers 10 to 14 was what put us into record loss territory.

Yep. One of the inviolable rules of challenging NZ: don't give them counter-attacking opportunities. Present them with a formed defensive line and the likelihood of them scoring drops away significantly.

Give them the ball with a ragged backline that's set up for attack, and they score.

 

[Braveheart81]

please work out which game that was because I am FASCINATED about such a concept.

You wouldn't have seen it. The match was only shown in Canada.

 

[Ignoto]

England 9 games, 2 wins, 7 losses (only 3 games in NZ) Av 23-20

Highlights to me that England's "golden" generation over the last several years hide away from playing the Darkness.

 

[emuarse]

I've just read Nicholas Bishop's precis of match 2 & 3 in the Roar, with videos.
I'm now of the opinion that the Wallaby halfback White is not up to scratch in defense.
He just can't tackle - just sort of tries to grab at the opposition player, consequently is probably the main reason the AB's love the blind side attack as White is covering, but I think a blade of grass could do a better job.

 

[rodha]

Yep. One of the inviolable rules of challenging NZ: don't give them counter-attacking opportunities. Present them with a formed defensive line and the likelihood of them scoring drops away significantly.

Matt Taylor's defence is a big question area.. He was the one responsible for hiding Lolesio at fullback in defence.

It pays to note that Scotland conceded fewer points (59) in this year's 6 Nations than any other side has in the past five seasons. The seasons before that under Matt Taylor they conceded an average of 125 points each 6 Nations.

 

[Pfitzy]

Matt Taylor's defence is a big question area.. He was the one responsible for hiding Lolesio at fullback in defence.

Huh?

Seriously, this is something that Kearns and Marshall talked about on their video with Grant Nisbett recently. "Oh you should defend in the line if you're the 10"

Bullshit.

This pattern has been used by multiple Test and Provincial sides - including Barrett and Mo'unga at both levels - and it only ever seems to be an issue when it doesn't work.