If you care to check back in Knox history, every U14,U15 and U16 team has been undefeated until they hit the open level. Boys develop and change so you can't say that the current Under 14 boys will still be playing 1st team rugby next year. There are some very small boys in the lower teams. If they don't grow they will be devoured when they get to open level. Team members are selected by strength, size, weight and fitness at that stage.
CAS Rugby 2013
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If you care to check back in Knox history, every U14,U15 and U16 team has been undefeated until they hit the open level. Boys develop and change so you can't say that the current Under 14 boys will still be playing 1st team rugby next year. There are some very small boys in the lower teams. If they don't grow they will be devoured when they get to open level. Team members are selected by strength, size, weight and fitness at that stage.
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Peter Burge (5)
Trinity 2011 scored 447 and conceded 126. Not sure how many tries that is but it's a lot! Trinity scoring "run rate" was 44.7 points per game; Barker this year running at 38.6 pts/gm; & Waverley this year at 32.6 pts/gm.
Defensively Trinity 2011 conceded 12.6 pts/gm; this yr Barker conceding 11.2 pts/gm. Expect to see the Barker defensive average rise since in their first 3 games they conceded 3, 3, and 12.
Those with a longer memory than me may comment on whether Trinity 2011 was the most dominant CAS team ever?
Snort
Nev Cottrell (35)
The problem with this kind of analysis is that you need to compare apples with apples. Before the mid-1990s, and the changes to the rules governing the breakdown, it used to be much easier to kill the ball at the breakdown. And before "supporting at the top of the jump" was legalised in lineouts, lineouts seldom provided the good attacking platform they do now. And, of course, if you go back far enough, tries were worth only 3 points, and the balls were leather that became near-impossible to kick for distance when it was wet. Bottom line: scoring points was much harder. So, for instance, the Trinity 1st XV of 1938 was considered dominant (winning all 8 games, pre-Waverley's entry to the Association) but scored only 241 points in the 8 games (conceding 48). Today, that ratio of 30 points a game would be much greater. Even in the late 70s/early 80s, I can recall games when the side on which I played was thrashed, yet I look back and the score was 14-3 or something like it.
(There's lots of stuff like this, by the way, in the recently published Trinity centenary Rugby history, which will appeal to people who need to know ancient trivia about school Rugby.)
In more recent times, I can't put my hand on the results, but my memory is that Waverley pounded everyone out of sight in 1997 (with Adam Freier and Ryan Cross) and ran up some cricket scores, since no-one could put a hand on Cross. But that was a five-round competition. Otherwise I think their record would have bear comparison with Trinity in 2011 and Barker this year.
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Peter Burge (5)
Scores are the only objective data we have to compare. Think you can compare dominance by looking at the ratio of points scored to conceded.
Trinity 2011 scored 3.55 times points conceded (447/126=3.55)
Barker 2013 has a ratio of 3.46 times
Your 1938 example of 241 to 48 is a seriously dominant ratio of 5.02 times
Your match example of 14-3 is a ratio of 4.66 times
Subjectively i remember Trinity 2011 killing Knox and Barker in a fashion i've not seen from any other team. (Wasn't around to see 97 Waverley).
Robert Lowell
Bob McCowan (2)
GPS v CAS a good game. The CAS backline displayed a great array of defense against a side that was faster and bigger. Ironically the two tries came from the forwards who were also very competitive. An entertaining game with some good footy, CAS held their own. Kellaway from GPS was phenomenal, Kirkby played well and Stoltz made tenacious linebreaks as usual although only played the first half. Passion reverberated his game.
Thomas Bailey
Frank Row (1)
A great game overall. I agree Kellaway had one of the best games I have seen him play this season alone, yet I can't get past your comment about Stoltz passion being as prominent as you make out to be. Unfortunately id say much to the contrary, his lack of involvement in the second half only furthers this. Impressive first half however, strong player, but still lacking the commitment to the game.
I agree with smokinjoe
Can you stop stirring things up. I don't think Stoltz would play if he didnt have passion for the game. I don't think it's anyone else's job except for The man himself to question his passion. Leave him alone he plays great rugby, and clearly he is good at it.
It's just not a topic that should be discussed on here because whoever brings it up is wrong.
ead.
Can you stop stirring things up. I don't think Stoltz would play if he didnt have passion for the game. I don't think it's anyone else's job except for The man himself to question his passion. Leave him alone he plays great rugby, and clearly he is good at it.
It's just not a topic that should be discussed on here because whoever brings it up is wrong.
ead.
Fred87
Frank Nicholson (4)
Pretty sure Stoltz went off at half time - that might explain his "lack of involvement in the second half"!!. Number 20 played the whole second half at inside centre, not sure who the player was.
GPS centres Moeroa (12) and Milne (13) were very good, big, fast, elusive, able to break tackes etc. Agree Cam Dove (CAS13) had a great game, took it up very aggressively against his much bigger opponents, very gutsy effort. In the final analysis hard to see any CAS backs progressing to higher honours in the firsts except perhaps Jones (15) and then probably on the wing since Kellaway (GPS15) was so good.
CAS front row was excellent. Satui(3) and McLean(1) ran strongly and were hard to bring down, especially Satui.
Other interesting observation was how easily Davis (CAS11) was contained. Several times in the 2nd half he received the ball with plenty of space on the outside. At CAS games this year that spelled "try time" (Davis has scored a lot of tries this year). The GPS backs were easily able to contain him, in fact they made him look slow. The GPS backs communicated well in defence and when breaks did happen they closed it down easily with their speed.
GPS centres Moeroa (12) and Milne (13) were very good, big, fast, elusive, able to break tackes etc. Agree Cam Dove (CAS13) had a great game, took it up very aggressively against his much bigger opponents, very gutsy effort. In the final analysis hard to see any CAS backs progressing to higher honours in the firsts except perhaps Jones (15) and then probably on the wing since Kellaway (GPS15) was so good.
CAS front row was excellent. Satui(3) and McLean(1) ran strongly and were hard to bring down, especially Satui.
Other interesting observation was how easily Davis (CAS11) was contained. Several times in the 2nd half he received the ball with plenty of space on the outside. At CAS games this year that spelled "try time" (Davis has scored a lot of tries this year). The GPS backs were easily able to contain him, in fact they made him look slow. The GPS backs communicated well in defence and when breaks did happen they closed it down easily with their speed.
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Peter Burge (5)
Pretty much agree with all that. Kirkby (CAS9) didn't have his best passing game, a couple in the ground and a couple high & behind; & a box kick out on the full; but as usual he was good in defence. Although the cold we conditions were difficult. Smerdon (CAS10) had an off day defensively 0 went high too many times and bounced off.
GPS centres are very good. The try Milne(GPS13) scored late in the 2nd half looked impossible, he had no room but evaded a couple, crashed through the final tackles, all right next to the sideline - very impressive.
With CAS leading 7-5 well into the first half it looked good. But GPS then scored two tries from scrums. Firstly from a scrum about 10 metres out they ran a simple across and unders play for Moeroa (12) to stroll through a yawning gap; he hit Jones (CAS15) on the try line at full speed and needless to say scored. GPS 3rd try, just before half time was from a scrum just inside CAS territory and about 1/3 of the way in field (ie a big blind side). In a simple 3 on 2 move the GPS winger was released down the sideline. (Davis's (CAS11) side but can't blame him, he had to come in and try to close down the move)
Interesting comment on Davis. He's a very skilled, elusive good all round rugby player (3rd year in Barker 1st XV) but probably lacks the very high top speed needed at the higher levels.
Barker backline didn't function as smoothly in the 2nd half with Stoltz(12) off. In any case, man for man, GPS are just bigger, stronger, faster. Really good effort from the forwards who really manned up and held their own. Agree Satui (CAS3) was the best front rower on the field. Koutsoukis (CAS2) was also very busy.
5 tries to 2 probably a fair reflection.
GPS centres are very good. The try Milne(GPS13) scored late in the 2nd half looked impossible, he had no room but evaded a couple, crashed through the final tackles, all right next to the sideline - very impressive.
With CAS leading 7-5 well into the first half it looked good. But GPS then scored two tries from scrums. Firstly from a scrum about 10 metres out they ran a simple across and unders play for Moeroa (12) to stroll through a yawning gap; he hit Jones (CAS15) on the try line at full speed and needless to say scored. GPS 3rd try, just before half time was from a scrum just inside CAS territory and about 1/3 of the way in field (ie a big blind side). In a simple 3 on 2 move the GPS winger was released down the sideline. (Davis's (CAS11) side but can't blame him, he had to come in and try to close down the move)
Interesting comment on Davis. He's a very skilled, elusive good all round rugby player (3rd year in Barker 1st XV) but probably lacks the very high top speed needed at the higher levels.
Barker backline didn't function as smoothly in the 2nd half with Stoltz(12) off. In any case, man for man, GPS are just bigger, stronger, faster. Really good effort from the forwards who really manned up and held their own. Agree Satui (CAS3) was the best front rower on the field. Koutsoukis (CAS2) was also very busy.
5 tries to 2 probably a fair reflection.
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Peter Burge (5)
Also noticed that
Taane Milne (GPS13)(& Sydney Roosters) and
Tepai Moeroa (GPS12)(& Parramatta Eels) have been selected in the rugby league NSW U/18's team to play QLD at Suncorp on the 26th as the preliminary game to State of Origin 2. Guess that explains why they looked so good last night - they are good!!
I was lucky enough to watch yesterday's games and have a few comments of my own.
I thought Satiu was excellent and would have to be a near certainty for NSW 1. 13, Dove (B) was extremely courageous and perhaps would not look out of place in a NSW II jersey. I caught parts of the 2nds game and Hanson (B) the number 8 caught my eye, another player you would have to be think has higher honours awaiting.
I thought Satiu was excellent and would have to be a near certainty for NSW 1. 13, Dove (B) was extremely courageous and perhaps would not look out of place in a NSW II jersey. I caught parts of the 2nds game and Hanson (B) the number 8 caught my eye, another player you would have to be think has higher honours awaiting.
My Info. Is they have pulled out of NSWRL U18s to Concentrate on Union, the same for another lad in ISA 1s. Good Move !
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Peter Burge (5)
Yep - latest NSWRL site has them off the list. Roosters web site says Milne is currently not playing Holden Cup due to school commitments.
They are still very good. Have to admire the way Cam Dove (CAS13) went hard at them all match, the boy has ticker.
From what i saw of the 2nds Summerhayes impressed & i think he may have had some game time in the 1sts.
Sadler
Stan Wickham (3)
Still cannot believe the heart of both Barker centers against the massive GPS centers. Outstanding display of courage, even though Stoltz seemed to have an injury and was pulled in the second half. Not really a suprise considering the solid defence against those big fast boys.
Thought the forwards were solid, especially Koutsokis (CAS 2) and Satiu (CAS 3). Akopion the second row also had a solid game in my opinion.
Thought the forwards were solid, especially Koutsokis (CAS 2) and Satiu (CAS 3). Akopion the second row also had a solid game in my opinion.
In my honest opinion I think CAS played extremely well considering the quality of their opponents. GPS were always going to be bigger, stronger and better overall, and as far as I'm aware many spectators were expecting a thrashing but I really think both teams put on a great show.
For GPS, Kellaway(15) was incredible, and the centers (the Holden cup lads, Moeroa(12) and Milne(13) truly backed up their fierce reputation, they were incredible. As far as the GPS forwards were concerned, none of them really stood out to me, they all had a great game. If I had to mention one GPS forward I'd say Hanigan(4) had a solid game.
However, I feel its the CAS boys that really deserve the recognition here. Even though they lost they really stood up to a team that nobody believed the had a chance to beat. It's hard to go into a game with the odds so heavily against you, not to mention the sheer size difference between the teams! I believe in the CAS forwards Satiu(3) and the other prop (whom I don't know) played an incredible game, really driving the forwards. I also think Akopian(5) has really proved himself in these games. Akopian often doesn't get much of a wrap but I think he's a consistent player that worked hard all game.
As far as the CAS backs are concerned I think all of them should be commended, considering what they were up against, however Its Dove(13) that really impressed me. He was considerably smaller then his opposing man, a player with truly gobsmacking skill, however Dove didn't give up all game. He got bummed off several times and even completley run over a few times but every single time he got straight back up and into the line, and then went on to make some great tackles. I think he should really be commended for his sheer courage in the game, it wouldn't be easy to go up against opponents with the reputation as those centers do. Similarly Stolz(12) played well, it's a shame he had to go off in the second half, does anybody know what happened? I feel the notorious Barker back three weren't as threatening in attack, however in saying that they didn't actually do anything wrong, GPS were just so good; what can you expect? Elwood Hall and Davis gave a good game, Jones as well played well.
All round, I think the CAS lads really need to be commended for their courage, keeping a much stronger, more skillful side to a fairly small score, considering it could have been MUCH worse.
For GPS, Kellaway(15) was incredible, and the centers (the Holden cup lads, Moeroa(12) and Milne(13) truly backed up their fierce reputation, they were incredible. As far as the GPS forwards were concerned, none of them really stood out to me, they all had a great game. If I had to mention one GPS forward I'd say Hanigan(4) had a solid game.
However, I feel its the CAS boys that really deserve the recognition here. Even though they lost they really stood up to a team that nobody believed the had a chance to beat. It's hard to go into a game with the odds so heavily against you, not to mention the sheer size difference between the teams! I believe in the CAS forwards Satiu(3) and the other prop (whom I don't know) played an incredible game, really driving the forwards. I also think Akopian(5) has really proved himself in these games. Akopian often doesn't get much of a wrap but I think he's a consistent player that worked hard all game.
As far as the CAS backs are concerned I think all of them should be commended, considering what they were up against, however Its Dove(13) that really impressed me. He was considerably smaller then his opposing man, a player with truly gobsmacking skill, however Dove didn't give up all game. He got bummed off several times and even completley run over a few times but every single time he got straight back up and into the line, and then went on to make some great tackles. I think he should really be commended for his sheer courage in the game, it wouldn't be easy to go up against opponents with the reputation as those centers do. Similarly Stolz(12) played well, it's a shame he had to go off in the second half, does anybody know what happened? I feel the notorious Barker back three weren't as threatening in attack, however in saying that they didn't actually do anything wrong, GPS were just so good; what can you expect? Elwood Hall and Davis gave a good game, Jones as well played well.
All round, I think the CAS lads really need to be commended for their courage, keeping a much stronger, more skillful side to a fairly small score, considering it could have been MUCH worse.
JstWaiting4amate
Frank Nicholson (4)
Spot on Barker !
Our boys played very well! Especially in defence.GPS have some talented players but our boys played hard and like barker said none gave up all playing till the final whistle , Job well done to all the boys!
Good luck for Friday boys !
Our boys played very well! Especially in defence.GPS have some talented players but our boys played hard and like barker said none gave up all playing till the final whistle , Job well done to all the boys!
Good luck for Friday boys !
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