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CAS Rugby 2022

Props are People too

Chris McKivat (8)
Played on Knox 1 which was a great experience for the boys. Barker has some strong players - I’m not a B parent. I have to say though, this CAS age group is far weaker than their GPS counterparts.

It’s significantly weaker. Knox went through CAS undefeated but lost to every GPS team except Newo I think, plus a massive loss to Oakhill, who I think are the best in the age group.
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
I understand that Alex Sherlock of Knox scored again yesterday. That means he has become only the sixth player to score a try in every round of the CAS competition. The list is:

Try in each round of the competition

1947 N Hayes, Waverley (2 v St Aloysius, 3 v Barker, one v Knox, one v Trinity, 2 v Cranbrook)

1953 L Hughes, Waverley (3 v St Aloysius, one v Barker, 3 v Knox, one v Trinity, 2 v Cranbrook)

1955 A Moore, Waverley (one against each of Trinity, Cranbrook, St Aloysius, Barker and Knox)

1961 CK Dickinson, Trinity (2 v St Aloysius, one against Barker, Waverley, Cranbrook, Knox). Dickinson also scored tries in each of the first three matches of 1962.

1995 D Walker, Knox (3 v Barker and Waverley, one against Cranbrook, Trinity and St Aloysius)

2022 A Sherlock, Knox (2 v Cranbrook, one v Waverley, one v Trinity, 6 v St Aloysius, one v Barker)

Sherlock scored 11 tries in the five-round competition, equalling the record for the five-round competition held by Waverley's Ryan Cross in 1997.
 
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Albi

Peter Burge (5)
The CAS needs to do more to support rugby. The depth is concerning. Aloys and Trinity are struggling to get B and C teams. Even the school that wins the 1sts, Barker, the performance of lower grades (if they have them) is weak. The competition is only as strong as the weaker schools and these schools are sometimes struggling to put B teams on the park.
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
The CAS needs to do more to support rugby. The depth is concerning. Aloys and Trinity are struggling to get B and C teams. Even the school that wins the 1sts, Barker, the performance of lower grades (if they have them) is weak. The competition is only as strong as the weaker schools and these schools are sometimes struggling to put B teams on the park.
Good point Albi. What would you do if you could fix it?

No gee up here. Genuinely keen to hear your (or anyone else's) thoughts.
 

bring back rucking

Fred Wood (13)
Surely something comes of the CAS survey that was done a couple of months ago. A lot of the questions had an underlying rugby theme. I assume they don’t commission a consulting firm for the fun of it.

I still don’t know which schools were the drivers behind this and what changes they are looking for support on. Unfortunately a lot of people I know who feel passionately about the topic didn’t actually complete the survey for one reason or another which is a shame
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
I'll bore people who have been here a while if I repeat my views on this. However....

I'm not sure that the CAS needs to do any more than it already does to "support Rugby". Most schools provide excellent facilities and coaching. What's missing in some schools is the player numbers. There are various reasons for that. One is the schools' catchment areas and groups. St Aloysius is the only academically selective CAS school: that, as the history of Grammar and Sydney Boys High demonstrates, erodes a Rugby program over time because it excludes a group of boys that each other school enrols (who are good at sport but ordinary in the classroom). That is a legitimate decision for the school to make: its duties are to the Jesuits who run the school, the parents and the boys, not to one sporting code. Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.

On top of that, every school now faces the problem that many parents are reluctant to allow their boys to play a sport perceived as dangerous. The risk has always been there (my mother didn't much like me playing), but it's worse now that significant mismatches exist within the CAS, in both skill and size. When there are 100-kilo boys running around in the under-16s, people are going to get hurt.

The only proper answer to this (as I keep saying) is to abandon (for Rugby) the old school groupings and arrange a three-tiered competition in which schools play against other schools with similar Rugby programs (measured primarily by numbers of teams, though other factors could be relevant). That way, your boy at St Aloysius can still thoroughly enjoy the game, competing against players of his own standard and level of commitment, instead of spending his Saturdays standing behind the posts waiting for another attempted conversion.
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Good points there Snort (I dare say some of it cut and pasted from the last time you spoke on the matter!) and I think you're dead right - the only way to make the sport a more enjoyable experience for all concerned is having like for like teams playing each other. Like for like in terms of total numbers playing (making life significantly easier for the sports masters to arrange a draw) and like for like in terms of ability.

It's good to see that at least the CAS is acknowledging there is a problem and are taking steps to address it. Although I hope it doesn't take something catastrophic to finally get all parties to have a serious look at what they are doing.

Its sad to say, but this was always going to happen though wasn't it. If some schools take "great leaps forward" and have programs that offer scholar...., skowla..., shcgolla...., um... "financial incentives" to boys of size and skill and others don't, then this creates more mismatches and greater risk of serious injury.

I actually have no issues with this to be honest, but schools need to start to look at what's more important: The health, safety and enjoyment of your students, or the brand name stamped on the program? The CAS appears to be considering this so good on them.
 

DaSchmooze

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Surely something comes of the CAS survey that was done a couple of months ago. A lot of the questions had an underlying rugby theme. I assume they don’t commission a consulting firm for the fun of it.

I still don’t know which schools were the drivers behind this and what changes they are looking for support on. Unfortunately a lot of people I know who feel passionately about the topic didn’t actually complete the survey for one reason or another which is a shame
It was an actual consulting firm running the survey? That's good to know
 

Eyes and Ears

Bob Davidson (42)
I'll bore people who have been here a while if I repeat my views on this. However....

I'm not sure that the CAS needs to do any more than it already does to "support Rugby". Most schools provide excellent facilities and coaching. What's missing in some schools is the player numbers. There are various reasons for that. One is the schools' catchment areas and groups. St Aloysius is the only academically selective CAS school: that, as the history of Grammar and Sydney Boys High demonstrates, erodes a Rugby program over time because it excludes a group of boys that each other school enrols (who are good at sport but ordinary in the classroom). That is a legitimate decision for the school to make: its duties are to the Jesuits who run the school, the parents and the boys, not to one sporting code. Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.

On top of that, every school now faces the problem that many parents are reluctant to allow their boys to play a sport perceived as dangerous. The risk has always been there (my mother didn't much like me playing), but it's worse now that significant mismatches exist within the CAS, in both skill and size. When there are 100-kilo boys running around in the under-16s, people are going to get hurt.

The only proper answer to this (as I keep saying) is to abandon (for Rugby) the old school groupings and arrange a three-tiered competition in which schools play against other schools with similar Rugby programs (measured primarily by numbers of teams, though other factors could be relevant). That way, your boy at St Aloysius can still thoroughly enjoy the game, competing against players of his own standard and level of commitment, instead of spending his Saturdays standing behind the posts waiting for another attempted conversion.
It's frustrating that there hasn't been more progress on this already as it has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade possibly two. I suppose GPS would arguse that they are already there with 2 divisions and this year the 1st XV and 3rd XV competitions have been quite even (with the exception of High who have had a weak year).
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
I'll bore people who have been here a while if I repeat my views on this. However....

I'm not sure that the CAS needs to do any more than it already does to "support Rugby". Most schools provide excellent facilities and coaching. What's missing in some schools is the player numbers. There are various reasons for that. One is the schools' catchment areas and groups. St Aloysius is the only academically selective CAS school: that, as the history of Grammar and Sydney Boys High demonstrates, erodes a Rugby program over time because it excludes a group of boys that each other school enrols (who are good at sport but ordinary in the classroom). That is a legitimate decision for the school to make: its duties are to the Jesuits who run the school, the parents and the boys, not to one sporting code. Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.

On top of that, every school now faces the problem that many parents are reluctant to allow their boys to play a sport perceived as dangerous. The risk has always been there (my mother didn't much like me playing), but it's worse now that significant mismatches exist within the CAS, in both skill and size. When there are 100-kilo boys running around in the under-16s, people are going to get hurt.

The only proper answer to this (as I keep saying) is to abandon (for Rugby) the old school groupings and arrange a three-tiered competition in which schools play against other schools with similar Rugby programs (measured primarily by numbers of teams, though other factors could be relevant). That way, your boy at St Aloysius can still thoroughly enjoy the game, competing against players of his own standard and level of commitment, instead of spending his Saturdays standing behind the posts waiting for another attempted conversion.

As usual, well analysed and logically explained Snort, as I have also said too many times, couldn't agree more.

The only thing, once again, I would add is that something very significant is done, BEFORE an accident forces the issue.
 

Props are People too

Chris McKivat (8)
It is going to come to a head quickly as I understand that next year GPS is reverting to a home and away structure, meaning that the GPS teams will not be available to play the multi-week trials they did this year. I guess that means home and away for CAS as well, which may not be all that enticing for some schools.

A mid- August mini Aus schools championship for the winners of CAS, AAGPS, ISA and the Qld comps would be enticing and give the kids the possibility of being Aus champions. That would generate some interest.
 

WLF3

Darby Loudon (17)
It is going to come to a head quickly as I understand that next year GPS is reverting to a home and away structure, meaning that the GPS teams will not be available to play the multi-week trials they did this year. I guess that means home and away for CAS as well, which may not be all that enticing for some schools.

A mid- August mini Aus schools championship for the winners of CAS, AAGPS, ISA and the Qld comps would be enticing and give the kids the possibility of being Aus champions. That would generate some interest.
What a real shame, back to the dark ages for everyone!

Some people never learn.
 

bring back rucking

Fred Wood (13)
It is going to come to a head quickly as I understand that next year GPS is reverting to a home and away structure, meaning that the GPS teams will not be available to play the multi-week trials they did this year. I guess that means home and away for CAS as well, which may not be all that enticing for some schools.

A mid- August mini Aus schools championship for the winners of CAS, AAGPS, ISA and the Qld comps would be enticing and give the kids the possibility of being Aus champions. That would generate some interest.
Is that confirmed? That is frustrating. I’ve enjoyed the inter association games and from a Knox perspective it has been quite rewarding with multiple victories over GPS schools in the firsts… the crowds have also been great
 
O

Old High Boy

Guest
It is going to come to a head quickly as I understand that next year GPS is reverting to a home and away structure, meaning that the GPS teams will not be available to play the multi-week trials they did this year. I guess that means home and away for CAS as well, which may not be all that enticing for some schools.

A mid- August mini Aus schools championship for the winners of CAS, AAGPS, ISA and the Qld comps would be enticing and give the kids the possibility of being Aus champions. That would generate some interest.

I have heard this too, but only via parents of schoolboys playing.

It will be a shame, as I have enjoyed the inter association games over the last few years as well. I am not sure of the reason why to revert back to GPS H & A, but surely - in a few years time - we will be in the same position we were in when the change was made to stop H&A matches. Bizarre indeed...
 

Props are People too

Chris McKivat (8)
Same, heard from a parent who’s on the committee at New. So not 100% confirmed.

I have heard this too, but only via parents of schoolboys playing.

It will be a shame, as I have enjoyed the inter association games over the last few years as well. I am not sure of the reason why to revert back to GPS H & A, but surely - in a few years time - we will be in the same position we were in when the change was made to stop H&A matches. Bizarre indeed...
 

Lachie Goon

Allen Oxlade (6)
Trinity, on the other hand, has struggled for many years because its catchment area included large numbers of first and second generation migrant families (first Greek and Lebanese, now south Asian) with no cultural affinity for Rugby.
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