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Force 2023

Hogie

Herbert Moran (7)
Tamaiti Williams would be a great get. With the Crusaders links at the Force it could be possible and he would come into Wallaby contention. My feeling however is that he is after an AB cap.

The former Reds in Japan in Hockings and Lucas would add serious depth and I would also be keen for one of the Australian teams to look at the young locks in France in Meafou and Amatosero but think both are on long term contracts.
 

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
When a coach or a valuable players leaves a club I see it as a fracture that needs to heal. By Sampson leaving and the club ‘upgrading’ to Cron I see a club trying to grow beyond its time. Realistically the club is 2 years young and hasn’t developed its culture and core. Is Cron really an upgrade from a culture perspective?
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)
When a coach or a valuable players leaves a club I see it as a fracture that needs to heal. By Sampson leaving and the club ‘upgrading’ to Cron I see a club trying to grow beyond its time. Realistically the club is 2 years young and hasn’t developed its culture and core. Is Cron really an upgrade from a culture perspective?
In reality, the Western Force is in it's 17th year, as shown by the continuous involvement by Matt Hodgson, the Director of Rugby who has been with the club from Year 1. There has not been a year that the club has missed playing professional rugby - but it did have it's Super Rugby licence cancelled for a period.

Tim Sampson is completing his 5th year as coach. Tim is a top bloke who has done a great job leading the player group and support staff through ever-changing times. Tim had an 88% winning record in GRR, but only a 22% winning record in Super Rugby. I can understand the club looking at all options at the time of his contract renewal.

There is plenty of time for a pre-season transition and recruitment with Simon Cron into the 2023 Super Rugby season.
There is a strong/experienced Assistant Coaching and support group that is more than good enough to help take the player group to the next level including: Mark Ozich – Attack Coach (Hawke's Bay); Paul Tito – Forwards Coach (Taranaki/Pau); Nick Hensley – Defence Coach (Nthn Suburbs/WForce); Anthony Cutrupi – Head of Athletic Performance (Waratahs); Hal Marsden – Strength, Power & Rehab (Melb Storm); Dylan Parsons – Skills Coach/WF & Academy (RugbyWA); Chris Goodman – GM Fortescue Academy (Crusaders).

There is a continuity of culture throughout that period that has only been strengthened through adversity but also the challenges and opportunities offered by the international involvement 2018 - early 2020 - that has not been available to any other Aussie franchise.
There is a strong Fortescue Academy that has a mixture of local WA lads and some of the best U20 players in Australia who have been involved in the current pre-season and will have had a full season under Tim Sampson et al.
In preparation for the possible impact of Covid during 2022, the pre-season included involvement from a similar sized group of Perth club rugby players who could be drawn upon if required.

The current squad still includes 2 players (Prior & Stander - both in their 9th season in the West) who stayed with the WF during the 2017 axing by RA but it's also has very experienced International players in Holmes, Kahui and Thrush who have taken on specialist skills coaching roles with the main group, Academy players and WA state under-age representative players.

The WF has had the challenge of developing its GRR player group to play in Super Rugby Au, TT and Pacifica during Covid times. Does anybody think that that has been easy? I reckon we all know that adversity can be a great team builder. This is the player group that had to live away from home for 11+ weeks during Covid lock-downs in 2020 and in 2022 had to play 4 of its first 5 games away with 4 x 6-day change-overs which included travel. It's a well-meshed player group from the 50 Test player down to the club rugby players.

2 years young? I don't think so! It has a 17 year history and a well-developed culture and core (driven by the player group).
Valuable players leaving the club? The WF has averaged 8-10 player changes each year. Rodda has signed for 2 more seasons.
Playing in it's 3rd year of Covid impacted Super Rugby? - certainly.
Is there a need to develop a Super Rugby winning culture? - absolutely.
I reckon that Simon Cron and the rest of the WF team have a chance to develop that together - starting in September 2022.
The new Head Coach certainly also has the opportunity to modify or improve the existing well-established culture.
It's going to be an interesting journey............
 
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upthereds#!

Ken Catchpole (46)
Shame FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner) is rumoured to be leaving - he is a real mainstay for the Force, but unfortunately Super Rugby is just not wealthy enough to keep this 'middle tier' of players when they need to be earning as much as possible once they see that Wallaby honours are no longer a realistic carrot to shoot for any more.

Someone like ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is off contract and not a starter at the Reds - but rumour has it he is keen to study (and therefore play) in the UK.
 
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Shame FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner) is rumoured to be leaving - he is a real mainstay for the Force, but unfortunately Super Rugby is just not wealthy enough to keep this 'middle tier' of players when they need to be earning as much as possible once they see that Wallaby honours are no longer a realistic carrot to shoot for any more.

Someone like ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is off contract and not a starter at the Reds - but rumour has it he is keen to study (and therefore play) in the UK.
I understand the English outfits have been kicking the ASY (Angus Scott-Young) door down to have a chat.
Reds are also likely to lose Wright.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Isn't that an implication that no matter the coach, the opposition is too strong?
Not necessarily. Last year they had a squad ready to play at least a tier down in standard. At the 11th hour they got called up to Super Rugby. When you take that into consideration, yes, the opposition was too strong but the Force didn’t have the chance to prepare for stronger opposition (in cattle or training)
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Isn't that an implication that no matter the coach, the opposition is too strong?
No single/simple answer but 22% wins and many glorious losses is unsustainable for a professional sporting team with implications for fans, sponsorship and recruitment.
Andrew Forrest has made his intentions for the WF very clear.
The Tony Lewis radio interview provides some insights into Simon Cron's recruitment. (Poor audio).
As Drew has highlighted the return to Super Rugby was not the plan in 2020 which had been set up as the first season of GRR.
In the circumstances to make the semi-final in the 2nd year of SRAu was a reasonable outcome.
Since 2020 the focus has clearly been building a winning Super Rugby team but not all of the components for that were immediately available due to Covid etc.
 
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PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
Not necessarily. Last year they had a squad ready to play at least a tier down in standard. At the 11th hour they got called up to Super Rugby. When you take that into consideration, yes, the opposition was too strong but the Force didn’t have the chance to prepare for stronger opposition (in cattle or training)

I think you mean back in 2020 that was the case - the Force are now in their third season back in Super Rugby.

But your point still stands - they haven't had ample time to pivot their recruitment strategy. Players aren't just suddenly available.

There won't be many more excuses though from now.
 
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I think you mean back in 2020 that was the case - the Force are now in their third season back in Super Rugby.

But your point still stands - they haven't had ample time to pivot their recruitment strategy. Players aren't just suddenly available.

There won't be many more excuses though from now.
Rest assured there are plenty of talented players very keen to work under Simon Cron. He will be a powerful magnet.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
I think you mean back in 2020 that was the case - the Force are now in their third season back in Super Rugby.

But your point still stands - they haven't had ample time to pivot their recruitment strategy. Players aren't just suddenly available.

There won't be many more excuses though from now.
You’re right 2020. Times blurring into one at the moment. I think the introduction of Rodda, Fines, Pasitoa, et al shows they have a vision for the future. Hopefully it will bear fruit
 
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You’re right 2020. Times blurring into one at the moment. I think the introduction of Rodda, Fines, Pasitoa, et al shows they have a vision for the future. Hopefully it will bear fruit
not sure of Rodda's commitment post RWC 2023 though. The lure of more Euros might be too much for him to resist.
 

upthereds#!

Ken Catchpole (46)
Force need to attract more starting wallabies in order to benefit from the RA topups. Right now they need to pay overs to people to have a shot, to come home or to get out of someone else's shadow.

THP is a major problem. First choice is an Argentinean who is leaving and the next is Holmes who probably won't play next year. Timani left, FLW (Fergus Lee-Warner) is going and Thrush will probably not play next year either. That leaves Mccauley and Pugh to partner Rodda - not exactly awe inspiring. Tight 5 quality and forward depth is a real problem.

Then lose Kahui most likely and with Godwin a bit average, Ralston leaving also, suddenly out back depth and quality is struggling also IMO.

In 2 seasons they will have lost Kuridrani and Kahui and who will they have left...Makara? Concerning to me.

Serious recruitment required.
 

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
In reality, the Western Force is in it's 17th year, as shown by the continuous involvement by Matt Hodgson, the Director of Rugby who has been with the club from Year 1. There has not been a year that the club has missed playing professional rugby - but it did have it's Super Rugby licence cancelled for a period.

Tim Sampson is completing his 5th year as coach. Tim is a top bloke who has done a great job leading the player group and support staff through ever-changing times. Tim had an 88% winning record in GRR, but only a 22% winning record in Super Rugby. I can understand the club looking at all options at the time of his contract renewal.

There is plenty of time for a pre-season transition and recruitment with Simon Cron into the 2023 Super Rugby season.
There is a strong/experienced Assistant Coaching and support group that is more than good enough to help take the player group to the next level including: Mark Ozich – Attack Coach (Hawke's Bay); Paul Tito – Forwards Coach (Taranaki/Pau); Nick Hensley – Defence Coach (Nthn Suburbs/WForce); Anthony Cutrupi – Head of Athletic Performance (Waratahs); Hal Marsden – Strength, Power & Rehab (Melb Storm); Dylan Parsons – Skills Coach/WF & Academy (RugbyWA); Chris Goodman – GM Fortescue Academy (Crusaders).

There is a continuity of culture throughout that period that has only been strengthened through adversity but also the challenges and opportunities offered by the international involvement 2018 - early 2020 - that has not been available to any other Aussie franchise.
There is a strong Fortescue Academy that has a mixture of local WA lads and some of the best U20 players in Australia who have been involved in the current pre-season and will have had a full season under Tim Sampson et al.
In preparation for the possible impact of Covid during 2022, the pre-season included involvement from a similar sized group of Perth club rugby players who could be drawn upon if required.

The current squad still includes 2 players (Prior & Stander - both in their 9th season in the West) who stayed with the WF during the 2017 axing by RA but it's also has very experienced International players in Holmes, Kahui and Thrush who have taken on specialist skills coaching roles with the main group, Academy players and WA state under-age representative players.

The WF has had the challenge of developing its GRR player group to play in Super Rugby Au, TT and Pacifica during Covid times. Does anybody think that that has been easy? I reckon we all know that adversity can be a great team builder. This is the player group that had to live away from home for 11+ weeks during Covid lock-downs in 2020 and in 2022 had to play 4 of its first 5 games away with 4 x 6-day change-overs which included travel. It's a well-meshed player group from the 50 Test player down to the club rugby players.

2 years young? I don't think so! It has a 17 year history and a well-developed culture and core (driven by the player group).
Valuable players leaving the club? The WF has averaged 8-10 player changes each year. Rodda has signed for 2 more seasons.
Playing in it's 3rd year of Covid impacted Super Rugby? - certainly.
Is there a need to develop a Super Rugby winning culture? - absolutely.
I reckon that Simon Cron and the rest of the WF team have a chance to develop that together - starting in September 2022.
The new Head Coach certainly also has the opportunity to modify or improve the existing well-established culture.
It's going to be an interesting journey............
I know where you’re trying to go with this, and I see that the re-introduction to Super Rugby is a different path to that since 2005; hence my comment of 2 years young. The team from 2 years ago has had much change to what we will see in 2023; hence my culture comment. In summary, I think it was too early for an ‘upgrade’ of coach particularly when Sampson is/was the glue. I would have given it 1 to 2 more years if Sampson was willing to participate. I know more than was is discussed on this forum whereby others think I’m just a Queensland supporter having a go.
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)
I know more than was is discussed on this forum whereby others think I’m just a Queensland supporter having a go.
It's a good discussion as WA is in quite a unique position - certainly in Australia.

WA has a long-standing rugby history but only a 17-year professional rugby experience which was totally disrupted by the events of 2017.
But there was a level of continuity provided by Andrew Forrest's rescue. Tim Sampson was a key element of maintaining that continuity.
What has also been happening is a redevelopment of the game in WA from the grassroots level.

The support staff recruitment over the past 18 months has had a Super Rugby focus - which I agree is very different from the GRR expansion into the Asia pacific region. GRR's focus was to grow the game in the region - it wasn't going to grow if the WF was winning every game.

IMO, the change of Head Coach is very much a part of that Super Rugby focus and was important to build not only a competitive team but a winning team.
It's hard to get a real feel for Andrew's vision, energy and level of support from afar.
But the players are certainly on board with it - and the reason why top U20 players such as Andrew Romano, George Poolman, Ned Slack-Smith, Jordan Williams, Josh Mongard, Bo Abra, other players such as Angus Wagner, Harry Lloyd, Jack Winchester, Campbell Parata, Daniel Ala and the young Brumbies players were attracted to the program. I doubt if any of these young players haved been disappointed since their arrival in the West.

Simon Cron will take this recruitment and game development to another level - with a desire to make a real difference over the next 2-3 years.
The fact that he is not a coach with a proven Super Rugby record or higher level, but a coach recognised to have high potential for growth, reflects how Forrest and Lewis prefer having a group that is growing together.
Time will tell........................
 
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