Italy v Australia, Sunday Nov 10 2013, Stadio Olimpico

[oztimmay]

Fardy out, Afro up for selection. Might start seeing some work at the ruck again.

BTW. love the scrum highlights video above- well done. Agree with @intruder, Jon Smit was just a fat hooker masquerading as a prop. And a very bad one at that.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/t...after-head-knock/story-e6frf4pu-1226753154769

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Due to the lack of time the Wallaby coaches get with the players, shouldn't we be pushing the ARU to have more involvement/pressure on the Super Clubs to bring this type of training in? I imagine by adopting this approach, you'll help facilitate all players developing these skills ie the Nick Frisby's, the Matt Lucas's as well as our "top" players such as Genia, White, Cooper etc.

The NZRU seem to have an influence on the direction the super clubs go towards, but I can't imagine our super teams taking too kindly to being told what to do.

I don't see it as a Wallaby problem. I see it as an Australian Rugby problem.

The Kicking consultants/clinics/skills development package whatever form it takes has to be rolled out well before the kids are thinking about Professional rugby.

Too late by the time they are Wobs.

The HPU needs to develop and roll out a kicking skills module into the Junior Gold Cup, Age group rep teams, with refresher packages, mentoring and monitoring as the kids progress along the pathway.

At Soup and Wobs level, it should only be putting the final finishing touches on and the odd tweak here or there. The basics need to be second nature well before the kids get to 1st XV for their school or U17 Junior Club footy.

 

[Jagman]

The middle row in 2009 was significantly better. Horwill before his two significant injuries; he was once a beast at THL. Pocock is a much better scrummager than Hooper; I've heard Robinson say it's like having another lock pushing you. Elsom before his hammy became unmanageable; was said to be the greatest player BOD had ever played with that same year. And finally Chisholm; much maligned but actually was very good at set piece and had a stronger drive in the scrum than what we see from current LHLs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Red Baron]

One thing that is very evident in those highlights in the work of Palu in each scrum. Yet apparently he's shit.

Rarely I will agree with you, but this happens to be one of those rare times.

Palu is the one timing the engage from the back of the scrum. He is guiding the initial shove well, and keeping the seconds straight. This allows pressure to be directed to where it should be, and is evident in the video. The force is transferred to the opposition scrums, who simply fold like a deck of cards. It is great to watch.

We really need the 8 guiding the hit (which would be the initial shove now the hit has been removed). We need the 8 to guide the second row properly, by directing his shove appropriately. We are not seeing that at the moment.

 

[hammertimethere]

If it had been me last week, I would have put Fardy into the 2nd row and dropped Horwill anyway (despite the Simmons injury). The bloke is obviously exhausted. Even Kane probably had more effective involvements in his limited time last week. With Simmons back on deck this week James should be on the bench at best. Likewise for one of Slipper or alexander. Robinson should start, maybe Kepu too.

1. Fat cat
2. Saia
3. Alexander
4. Douglas or Timani (moot point largely)
5. Simmons
6. Mowen
7. Hooper
8. McCalman

9. White
10. Cooper
11. Cummins
12. To'omua
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Tomane
15. Folau

16. Apocalypse-Nau
17. Slipper
18. Kepu (was going to say Ryan but our scrum is under enough pressure)
19.Douglas or Timani
20. Gill
21. Genia
22. Foley
23. Kuridrani

 

[Richo]

16. Apocalypse-Nau

Absolute gold.

The Tahs must play the Ride of the Valkyries as his 2014 intro music.

 

[BPC]

What I'd like to see?

Bench every forward after that performance -- and Mowen would only escape because we can't just change the captaincy again. Moore and Hooper were okay, but both need a rest anyway.

Drop Genia altogether.

Words cannot express the depth of my agreement. It's about time wholesale changes jolted some of the players out of their complacency. If fact, send most of them home and ship out some younger fringe players.

 

[Zander]

The ARU have to take some of the blame too for their scheduling. Australia unlike NZ and SA are forced to play their best side every match.

 

[Ash]

Don't know how you can consider Douglas and Timani a moot point.

One can jump in the lineout effectively, hits and cleans out rucks with good technique and does more than job and slip around the park.

Douglas has great potential, this year he seemed to hit second year syndrom unfortunately.

 

[emuarse]

So cutting to the chase, our loose forwards are really not very good at an international level.
Fardy is probably just acceptable, and I don't mean to sound vextacious, but if you really are critical, he is probably just average for a number 6 on the stage of first tier number 6's. He does what he's expected to do, but doesn't stand out.
Then you have Hooper at 7. Well against South Africa, New Zealand, and England, he was not really present at the breakdown. He didn't do anything threatening around the edge of the ruck or maul, and hardly imposed himself in gaining possession from the breakdown. He impresses in open play, but is not performing in helping the pack to take it up.
And finally to the number 8, Ben Mowen. Put simply, he is not a number 8. His main action all day was to pass the ball from the back of the scrum to Wil Ginea when we won our put in. When the scrum packed, I was amazed at how his head and shoulders were way above the locks backsides. And the number of times the locks split because he wasn't holding them together....not a good look. For my money, he should be benched for McCalman who certainly plays better at that position then Mowen.
We continually criticise the front row, but I really suspect the loose forwards are the Wallabies' problem.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Braveheart81]

So cutting to the chase, our loose forwards are really not very good at an international level.
Fardy is probably just acceptable, and I don't mean to sound vextacious, but if you really are critical, he is probably just average for a number 6 on the stage of first tier number 6's. He does what he's expected to do, but doesn't stand out.
Then you have Hooper at 7. Well against South Africa, New Zealand, and England, he was not really present at the breakdown. He didn't do anything threatening around the edge of the ruck or maul, and hardly imposed himself in gaining possession from the breakdown. He impresses in open play, but is not performing in helping the pack to take it up.

I disagree with this.

Fardy and Hooper have consistently been the Wallabies best forwards throughout the Rugby Championship.

I feel that the glaring problems in the tight five are the massive issue in our forward pack.

Our backrow will never dominate the breakdown when they're trying to carry the rest of our forward pack.

I agree with you that Mowen isn't a number 8 and has struggled to be very effective in that position compared to how he went at 6 against the Lions.

Hooper and Fardy are consistently our top tacklers. Hooper has made more run metres than any of our other forwards in pretty much every test this year. He is one of the few forwards that consistently makes it over the advantage line in tight.

We certainly want these players to do better at the breakdown but it isn't going to happen whilst we have half the forward pack being completely ineffective in the loose. Our tight five are getting smashed in the scrum and aside from Moore are getting completely outplayed around the field by their opposite numbers in pretty much every test against good opposition.

 

[Zander]

Especially when Higginbotham, Pocock and Palu are back. That's a world class backrow.

 

[Joe Blow]

Our breakdown work is weak and inaccurate. Hooper has been one of our best but doesn't leave his mark on the forwards performance.
Introducing Gill and Robinson will make a big difference. Hooper to come in for the last 30 minutes or so to speed up the game could be much more effective than him playing his own game from the kick off.
The Wallaby forwards need to get the 'pack' mentality back.

 

[gel]

Same team this week as last week (barring injured fardy).

Opposed scrum training all week with Hooper and Mowen to pack into the "opposition" front row until they learn to keep their friggen heads down in the scrum or they start to cry.

Backs to watch on with Chardonnay and ballerina costumes as per usual.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Plenty of good shops in Italy for the backs to visit, while the Rugby Players get down to work, relearning what rugby players are supposed to do.

Leave the hair product, skin treatments, and latte discussions to the Pretty boys. There is a game to be won, and won well.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I agree with you that Mowen isn't a number 8 and has struggled to be very effective in that position compared to how he went at 6 against the Lions.

Re Mowen at 8. Last weekend we saw a new No 8, Vunipola, running at our No 10 channel and causing all sorts of grief for Quade. He consistently beat Quade's first up tackle and made many metres over the advantage line. Is it just me, or is it a fact that Ben didn't run at the English No 10 at all? IIrc most of the running by Ben Mowen and Ben McCalman were down the blind side, and the second rowers were the ones aiming at the No 10, but really to no effect. Big Kev is either out of form or still getting over injuries, and Sita goes to ground immediately anyone, no matter their size, lays a hand on him. Seems like another area where our tactics might be somewhat off the mark.

 

[Bardon]

Due to the lack of time the Wallaby coaches get with the players, shouldn't we be pushing the ARU to have more involvement/pressure on the Super Clubs to bring this type of training in? I imagine by adopting this approach, you'll help facilitate all players developing these skills ie the Nick Frisby's, the Matt Lucas's as well as our "top" players such as Genia, White, Cooper etc.

The NZRU seem to have an influence on the direction the super clubs go towards, but I can't imagine our super teams taking too kindly to being told what to do.

I don't see why the ARU couldn't employ a kicking coach and rotate him around the S15 franchises to provide extra sessions for the kickers. Then he'd join up with the Wallaby squad along with the players.

It would be hard to imagine the S15 sides would turn down a free resource aimed at improving the skills of their players. Although with how amateur and political the games administrative side is, all over the world, someone would probably find a reason to object.

 

[Slim 293]

Especially when Higginbotham, Pocock and Palu are back. That's a world class backrow.

Possibly........

Higginbotham is yet to really make his mark in test rugby.......

And unless Fardy is shifted to lock, then Palu and Higginbotham will be fighting it out for the 8 jersey.........

Still, leaves us with stronger depth..........

 

[emuarse]

I disagree with this.

Fardy and Hooper have consistently been the Wallabies best forwards throughout the Rugby Championship.

I feel that the glaring problems in the tight five are the massive issue in our forward pack.

Our backrow will never dominate the breakdown when they're trying to carry the rest of our forward pack.

I agree with you that Mowen isn't a number 8 and has struggled to be very effective in that position compared to how he went at 6 against the Lions.

Hooper and Fardy are consistently our top tacklers. Hooper has made more run metres than any of our other forwards in pretty much every test this year. He is one of the few forwards that consistently makes it over the advantage line in tight.

We certainly want these players to do better at the breakdown but it isn't going to happen whilst we have half the forward pack being completely ineffective in the loose. Our tight five are getting smashed in the scrum and aside from Moore are getting completely outplayed around the field by their opposite numbers in pretty much every test against good opposition.

But don't you see. you are comparing our players actions to each other, which is not really a good look.
We should be comparing them to our past forwards, and other 1st ranked international sides.
Only then do you get a true picture of how good/poor they play.

 

[emuarse]

Possibly....

Higginbotham is yet to really make his mark in test rugby...

And unless Fardy is shifted to lock, then Palu and Higginbotham will be fighting it out for the 8 jersey...

Still, leaves us with stronger depth....

I actually think it will be Fardy & Higgers fighting it out for the No 6 jersey, with Mowen on the pine.