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This includes you!
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
No. Just back up any claim that has any basis. Quotes attributed to somebody. Anything beyond pure speculation.
Obviously things are rotten, but the evidence we've seen suggests it's on the players side, not the coaching side.
Here, I'll start and negate some for year.
Webster's claim that McKenzie is a poor man manager.
I'm going to cite his success in launching the careers of discarded players (specifically Samo, Robinson, Harris and a Fainga'a) either into or back to the wallabies. Whilst also having his team described as "greater than the sum of it's parts" by many sources. In addition to that the glowing praise his management style was given by almost all media sources in his time at the Reds.
Feel free to add something constructive yourself rather than just posting the link to a factually incorrect article dealing in slander and speculation, that aligns with your views. I say aligns because as it lacks facts, it does not support your view.
Obviously things are rotten, but the evidence we've seen suggests it's on the players side, not the coaching side.
Here, I'll start and negate some for year.
Webster's claim that McKenzie is a poor man manager.
I'm going to cite his success in launching the careers of discarded players (specifically Samo, Robinson, Harris and a Fainga'a) either into or back to the wallabies. Whilst also having his team described as "greater than the sum of it's parts" by many sources. In addition to that the glowing praise his management style was given by almost all media sources in his time at the Reds.
Feel free to add something constructive yourself rather than just posting the link to a factually incorrect article dealing in slander and speculation, that aligns with your views. I say aligns because as it lacks facts, it does not support your view.
Biffo
Ken Catchpole (46)
i agree.
one area where rugby is hopelessly (sic) behind the times is its absence of independent professionalism in policy making for the game as a whole.
all the very successful professional football leagues in the world appear to be run by boards (commissions ...) composed of people WITH legitimate expertise in policy making and supervision and WITHOUT serious conflict of interest.
rugby in Australia is run by close mates drawn from a very small pool of mates.
perhaps the first step for the vital (sic) reformation of governing rugby in Australia is to install independent, expert "commissions" for state and national rugby.
TahDan
Cyril Towers (30)
What's false? What specifically do you know about the situation that these guys don't? Or are you just hoping it's false because the narrative pissed you off?
He mentions Cheika in two sentences, and claims two things in them: 1. that Cheika is better at motivating players, and 2. that there are rumours that Cheika has been sounded out by the ARU already.
Now, point 1 is something you'd have to ask the players, but Cheika has 2 HC and a Super Rugby title, so whilst he's not perfect he's not crap at his job either is he?
As for the rumours - they've been posted by both major media organisations, so what about that is wrong?
Sounds to me like you're just getting upset for absolutely no reason and I really don't get what has made you so angry.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Interesting to read an article by Webster about 12 months ago.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/with-amigos-like-these--20130816-2s24k.html
EDIT: These issues are clearly longstanding and not confined to any state or territory.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/with-amigos-like-these--20130816-2s24k.html
EDIT: These issues are clearly longstanding and not confined to any state or territory.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
He claims that Cheika is better at motivating players. Cheika won a title with a team that had 12 players who were internationals when he started at the Waratahs. That excludes Folau. Link won it with a team that had about 6 players who were internationals before he coached them. Another 8 or so became internationals.
Must be ok at motivating players.
Must be ok at motivating players.
Parse
Bill Watson (15)
Just to throw another thought on the fire.... All these various discussions on these forums about getting more support for Rugby, helping the NRC, get people along to games, get people to watch games on tv etc. There are lots of of discussions on how to make rugby more popular (or at least recognizable by) the general public.
I believe I have found the answer to all of Rugby's problems.
Get rid of the Sydney media!
I believe I have found the answer to all of Rugby's problems.
Get rid of the Sydney media!
TahDan
Cyril Towers (30)
You're getting awfully aggressive over this mate and I really don't see why.
As I said, his claims he's a poor man manager is something you'd have to survey players on, but again, Cheika has a different style that has clearly been pretty successful - more so than McKenzie's whichever way you cut it, so there's evidence he's managing things a little better than Link has to date.
I'd also point out that you're starting to use lines like "many sources" to back yourself up - the sort of unsubstantiated writing that when used by people you disagree with is apparently "fucking shithouse". Who said it, and when?
To be honest, I don't really want Cheika to go to the Wallabies, but if Fox and Fairfax are both reporting it... well there's a bit of smoke there to suggest there might be a fire.
Of course, I'm sure you'll dismiss that as "unsubstantiated fucking bullshit" or something, but things clearly ain't rosy mate and I don't get how you can't see that Link doesn't have even the tiniest bit of responsibility here.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Because just when this thread couldn't give more foolish, it's now a pissing contest about whose Super Rugby title was more impressive?
TahDan
Cyril Towers (30)
Yeah, great idea! It's like how if you got rid of cable news media all of a sudden all the wars in the Middle East would just like stop happening because we can't hear them from our front door!
Genius mate! Wish you'd come here sooner.
Last time I'm posting it.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
I lied.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
The Mods have had enough. Many of us want to close this thread completely. We're all sick of reading the putrid crap that stream through it.
Instead
**** THIS IS NOW A ZERO TOLERANCE THREAD! ****
Don't deal in rumours. Don't post to get a reaction. Don't play devils advocate. Think before you post.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
A truly sad thing has occurred to me over the last few days. This thread is about a week and a half old. It is now 109 pages long. Threads that have been open since April this year like the Reds 2015 thread are half as long. As for game threads over weeks they are lucky to make 40 pages.
And to really kill any remaining hope I had, what is a pretty cut and dried central matter with a lot of extraneous (though important) issues attached has degenerated into a provincial slanging match of conspiracy theories and competition between NSW and Qld. Frankly I subscribe to the view that this is the Wallabies and as such there is no province but Gold. The fact that various aspects of the media are fuelling this petty provincialism and obscuring some important points in it is not an excuse. This is the only site for the truly passionate Rugby fan IMO and I hope that in future the senior posters can critically examine the media's stories, pick the eyes out of it and provide some leadership in terms of the debate.
****edit it was 109 pages before Sully's cheese fell off his biscuit*****
And to really kill any remaining hope I had, what is a pretty cut and dried central matter with a lot of extraneous (though important) issues attached has degenerated into a provincial slanging match of conspiracy theories and competition between NSW and Qld. Frankly I subscribe to the view that this is the Wallabies and as such there is no province but Gold. The fact that various aspects of the media are fuelling this petty provincialism and obscuring some important points in it is not an excuse. This is the only site for the truly passionate Rugby fan IMO and I hope that in future the senior posters can critically examine the media's stories, pick the eyes out of it and provide some leadership in terms of the debate.
****edit it was 109 pages before Sully's cheese fell off his biscuit*****
Not usually one for politically correct fairfax pieces, but this one hits the nail on the head for me.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/sexual-harassment-bullying-has-no-place-in-the-aru-20141013-115eve.html
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/sexual-harassment-bullying-has-no-place-in-the-aru-20141013-115eve.html
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
He claims it's implausible Patson didn't tell McKenzie. As noted on this thread by many, the victim had a lot to lose by doing so, she has been forced to resign by this matter
Beale is being thrown under the bus. No, he is being dealt for a very serious matter. Having his contract terminated would be completely reasonable given the offence.
Beale won't face a fair disciplinary hearing. How so? Unless he is going to be blamed for something he never did, which seems unlikely as even his manager has accepted the messages and that he sent them. As said, termination would be fair if he did it.
Ewen McKenzie is the problem. What evidence suggests he as a coach is a problem? His most recent Australian history suggests otherwise. Strongly. He is the most successful active super rugby coach from Australia in fact.
Reds were happy to see McKenzie go due to his close relationship with Patson. What evidence is there of this? The reds 2014 results would suggest otherwise that's for certain.
Players say she has assumed the role of an amateur psychologist. A nice vague statement attributed to nobody in particular. Rock solid facts there.
He says the Mowen appointment was unpopular. Wasn't too popular at the brumbies either and he left being considered one of Australian rugby's greatest leaders.
He notes Mowen had been drinking, but fails to mention the entire squad was allowed to drink at dinner and were expected to be home at a reasonable time. The ones suspended were those who failed to comply.
McKenzie is said to struggle with man management. Well I've covered that already.
Notes Cheika nurturing Beale's brilliance, but fails to mention McKenzie doing it when he was coach, Beale was 10 and the Waratahs came runners up.
As previously noted, a piece of shit article full of half truths and telling one side of the story.
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