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NSW AAGPS 2022

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KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
from what I’ve heard he is over union, from all the politics, I don’t blame him either to be quite honest.

Another kid will be lost to league.
He was lost to League once the Sea Eagles put him on a contract about a month ago. I don’t really think politics had much to do with it. He’s made a decision to respect the entity that is now paying him, that’s how business works.
 

Rudderless

Dave Cowper (27)
Are our pathways really working ?


1657443959783.png
 

AroundTheAnkles

Dave Cowper (27)
No, but in fairness that is the old pathway, and it’s the Covid group. Yes, NZ had Covid too but prior to that they at least all played with or against each other at schools level. It’s a reset group IMO, let’s see how they go next year with a proper U20 RWC
There are a lot of selections in this group that make me scratch my head.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Mark Ella (57)
Are our pathways really working ?


View attachment 14066
Did you see that match?

I really hope this is just a bad cohort.... Majority of these starters also got beaten pretty soundly by Argentina. 9,10,12 were very slow and could not execute basics. NZ ate them up and went through.

Bowen and Dowling were excellent in the game against Fiji when they got a chance and many of the bench will be back.

Australia have done very well over the last 5 years in this tournament and the U20 WC so I don't think it's broken. I would prefer more of our young talent to play as much club footy as possible instead of sitting in academies wearing the polos to Super Rugby games. I also understand this is part of the fight to sign kids in high school. More appealing to hang out at Daceyville saying you are a Waratah than showing up to Woollahra for Easts.

IMO the best player should be picked for the team if available. I don't think we should ever shut the door on a kid for a decision made that isn't necessarily against Rugby. We want successful teams to spur interest and bring more people to the game. We also keep the door open for boys that may want to come back to Rugby at some point which there are many examples of like Tom Wright and even Charlie Rorke who went to the Raiders but is now playing Rugby in France.

Apologies for the long/winding post.

Rae Rae
 

Loose Carry

Peter Burge (5)
Sorry for my ignorance. Can someone explain how it works? The players in Gen Blue NSWRU U18 boys are considered the best players but they don't play in the Australian Schools Rugby Championship? Instead they play the Reds Academy etc. Is it from this group that the Australian U18 are selected? Then if you're good enough to make Gen Blue - but not good enough to make Australia - you cannot play for Australia. But if you are not good enough to make Gen Blue but make NSW I or NSW II you can then be selected in Aus Schoolboys? Then is Aus Schoolboys lower than Australian U18.
Also are NSW I and NSW II selected on merit (IE is NSW I considered a better team than NSW II)
Basically what you are saying is correct. But there is no Australian Schoolboys team anymore. It is called the Australian Schoolboys A team.

In the simplest terms:

The best 40 players in NSW were selected in the NSW Academy teams. They played one match in Queensland. I think they play against ACT as well later. From these matches an Australian U18s team is selected. The best team in the country presumably.

The next best 60 or so NSW players played in the National Championships at Knox. From this tournament the Australian Schoolboys A team was selected.

If you made NSW Academy I or II team but do not make the Australian Under 18 team then you CANNOT make the Australia A team.
 

wyvernboy

Banned
Hi Rugboy

You make some very good points.

School is school and a boy should be picked in GPS/CAS etc rep teams if deserving regardless of league preferences. But where do you draw the line. Eg. Over the next couple of years, if we invest in the likes of Katoa etc, will they be available for selection to play Aust Junior Wallabies and would they make the diff of 69-12 smaller.
Cam Murray, Tolu Koula etc were all GPS reps. They may have gotten further in Rugby but made their decision to not pursue Rugby in their immediate future and continue in the league pathway. Rugby doesn't have to invest in them anymore, yet they would be more than welcome back as in the case of T. Morea or A. Chrichton etc.
Agree it's a fine line between brushing the boys too early or giving them their due recognition in the hope of keeping them. It's not the schools problem ( however a good school rugby program and good promotion from coaches/directors help ) but def RA needs to step in like A. Cleverley and promote it as much as they can.
IMO there is enough talent in Rugby to compete. Need better coaches, clearer pathways and the young guns need to be exposed to hard rugby ie: senior level club rugby shute shield etc. Colts is ok but more should be done.

Wyvernboy
 

rugboy

Bob Loudon (25)
Hi Rugboy

You make some very good points.

School is school and a boy should be picked in GPS/CAS etc rep teams if deserving regardless of league preferences. But where do you draw the line. Eg. Over the next couple of years, if we invest in the likes of Katoa etc, will they be available for selection to play Aust Junior Wallabies and would they make the diff of 69-12 smaller.
Cam Murray, Tolu Koula etc were all GPS reps. They may have gotten further in Rugby but made their decision to not pursue Rugby in their immediate future and continue in the league pathway. Rugby doesn't have to invest in them anymore, yet they would be more than welcome back as in the case of T. Morea or A. Chrichton etc.
Agree it's a fine line between brushing the boys too early or giving them their due recognition in the hope of keeping them. It's not the schools problem ( however a good school rugby program and good promotion from coaches/directors help ) but def Rugby Australia needs to step in like A. Cleverley and promote it as much as they can.
IMO there is enough talent in Rugby to compete. Need better coaches, clearer pathways and the young guns need to be exposed to hard rugby ie: senior level club rugby shute shield etc. Colts is ok but more should be done.

Wyvernboy
Hi WB,

In principle, Rugby (professional organisations) should not develop League (long-term contracted) players.

Where do we draw the line? Anything outside of the School Representative pathways ie. Gen Blue should be for those with post school rugby aspirations.

My additional question is, who is "we"? as in "Over the next couple of years, if we invest in the likes of Katoa etc, will they be available for selection to play Aust Junior Wallabies and would they make the diff of 69-12 smaller." Because this is where we differ. "We" for me is professional rugby ie. RA or the Waratahs (in NSW). Schools are different. They exist to prepare their students for opportunities after school, be it through academia, music, debating, or sport etc. All of these programs are funded by the school. School pathway sport also is funded by the schools; GPS, NSW Schools etc. RA pulled their small amount of funding from the Australian Schools tournament years ago, so why should they be able to dictate selections be it boys who have aspirations for the Wallabies v Kangaroos?

Fate may have also stepped into this process regardless. The Gen Blue/Australian Schools dates now clash with the Australian Schools League dates, meaning post GPS/CAS/ISA games those boys who went League Nationals made themselves unavailable for Gen Blue/NSW Schools Selections.
 

runningrugbyrules

Herbert Moran (7)
Hi WB,

In principle, Rugby (professional organisations) should not develop League (long-term contracted) players.

Where do we draw the line? Anything outside of the School Representative pathways ie. Gen Blue should be for those with post school rugby aspirations.

My additional question is, who is "we"? as in "Over the next couple of years, if we invest in the likes of Katoa etc, will they be available for selection to play Aust Junior Wallabies and would they make the diff of 69-12 smaller." Because this is where we differ. "We" for me is professional rugby ie. Rugby Australia or the Waratahs (in NSW). Schools are different. They exist to prepare their students for opportunities after school, be it through academia, music, debating, or sport etc. All of these programs are funded by the school. School pathway sport also is funded by the schools; GPS, NSW Schools etc. Rugby Australia pulled their small amount of funding from the Australian Schools tournament years ago, so why should they be able to dictate selections be it boys who have aspirations for the Wallabies v Kangaroos?

Fate may have also stepped into this process regardless. The Gen Blue/Australian Schools dates now clash with the Australian Schools League dates, meaning post GPS/CAS/ISA games those boys who went League Nationals made themselves unavailable for Gen Blue/NSW Schools Selections.
I think to win the bledisloe again in our lifetime (literally) we need to do everything to make the NRL signings like Joseph Sua’alli welcome in the junior rep teams when we can. His time in the Australian schools bonding with other rugby players and getting a taste of international rugby can only increase any chance we have of kids like him returning to rugby. And judging from the U21 result we may need the like of Sua’alli, Penesini, Cameron Murray, Angus Crichton, O Kane, etc etc etc to possibly bolster out ranks come 2027 RWC to have a competitive chance. Let’s face it, the last RWC we actually came close to winning we needed the likes Rogers, Tiquiri, Sailor to be competitive.
 

runningrugbyrules

Herbert Moran (7)
I think to win the bledisloe again in our lifetime (literally) we need to do everything to make the NRL signings like Joseph Sua’alli welcome in the junior rep teams when we can. His time in the Australian schools bonding with other rugby players and getting a taste of international rugby can only increase any chance we have of kids like him returning to rugby. And judging from the U21 result we may need the like of Sua’alli, Penesini, Cameron Murray, Angus Crichton, O Kane, etc etc etc to possibly bolster out ranks come 2027 RWC to have a competitive chance. Let’s face it, the last RWC we actually came close to winning we needed the likes Rogers, Tiquiri, Sailor to be competitive.
And don’t count 2015, I think the Kiwis had 2 extra gears left to lift to win that game
 

The Front Rower

Sydney Middleton (9)
I think to win the bledisloe again in our lifetime (literally) we need to do everything to make the NRL signings like Joseph Sua’alli welcome in the junior rep teams when we can. His time in the Australian schools bonding with other rugby players and getting a taste of international rugby can only increase any chance we have of kids like him returning to rugby. And judging from the U21 result we may need the like of Sua’alli, Penesini, Cameron Murray, Angus Crichton, O Kane, etc etc etc to possibly bolster out ranks come 2027 RWC to have a competitive chance. Let’s face it, the last RWC we actually came close to winning we needed the likes Rogers, Tiquiri, Sailor to be competitive.
Completely agree Union is putting its head in the sand. What was the score in the under 20 again. 69-12 it shows the real state of union, politics.
 

runningrugbyrules

Herbert Moran (7)
Given the score and given the exodus to NRL its a good question. I suppose another question is if anything could be done differently what would it be? any thoughts.
Having worked for a couple of NRL clubs (but a rugby background, played for a Joeys) there is nothing that can be done, NRL has the financial superiority. Union needs to be centre stage on free to air in prime time to secure $$$$. Kids want $$$$
 

AroundTheAnkles

Dave Cowper (27)
I think to win the bledisloe again in our lifetime (literally) we need to do everything to make the NRL signings like Joseph Sua’alli welcome in the junior rep teams when we can. His time in the Australian schools bonding with other rugby players and getting a taste of international rugby can only increase any chance we have of kids like him returning to rugby. And judging from the U21 result we may need the like of Sua’alli, Penesini, Cameron Murray, Angus Crichton, O Kane, etc etc etc to possibly bolster out ranks come 2027 RWC to have a competitive chance. Let’s face it, the last RWC we actually came close to winning we needed the likes Rogers, Tiquiri, Sailor to be competitive.
Appeasement never works in any course of life. The names you mention above were mostly all given a lot of opportunity, they took it, they left, they won’t come back unless it is purely monetary. RA must focus on the kids who want to play and get better at selling the dream of what the opportunity really is in a world game. Long term union is far more rewarding and enriching but not everyone will see that if their world view is shaped by local player “managers”. No doubt NRL offers superior short term early career development and money. The gap can be bridged by thinking cleverly about how to leverage clubs in Europe in particular but also Japan, possibly even local and offshore universities with combined play and learn scholarships to offer a compelling alternative.
 
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